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      Series or No Series?
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 Posted July 25th, 2012 07:11 PM   IP
RLHofer
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Let's get the conversation going about whether we collectively want to run another series or just conduct stand-alone races, one after the other. The more input from everyone, the better. Let me begin by saying that if we decide to not have a series doesn't mean we won't schedule the races the same as was done last year; we'd STILL schedule the races on the calendar so everyone would know what tracks will be raced at and when. Let the fur fly!
Remember, two wrongs don't make a right..... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and one block behind!

 Posted July 26th, 2012 12:11 AM   IP
overkill
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I think if it is decided that we will not have a retro series that this time next year, it will be completly dead. I feel this would be a big move in the wrong direction, and can not believe it was evan sugested after the dedication that was put forth buy all the racers the last series.
(Edited by overkill)

ALL SCALE SLOT CAR RACEWAYS

 Posted July 26th, 2012 06:50 AM   IP
RLHofer
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Speaking for myself, I'd race whether in a series or not. You're suggesting the dedication was towards the series itself and not the class of cars; I think it was the other way 'round. I'd be interested to know how many of you would NOT have participated in retro racing if there had been no series(?).


Remember, two wrongs don't make a right..... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and one block behind!

 Posted July 26th, 2012 07:39 AM   IP
Milkman
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I'd like to see the series continue but will come to race if we have one or not. How many of the other retro organizations have the series format?Looking back I think the ponts chase was very close and positions were determined at the final race. I think there were 6 - 8 of our racers had a shot at placing in the top 3. Also 3 - 4 of us had a shot to finish on top, again all determined at the last race.

Basically I'd like to see TRRA grow and prosper. I'd like to see more new faces as well as seeing all or most of the participants in our last series at our race events. It would also be great if the TRRA could sponsor a premier event like the R4, the Sano, and Retropolooza.

Ken Stevens
Speedstar - Go fast, stay on, do laps!!

 Posted July 26th, 2012 07:48 AM   IP
Milkman
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I started a thread on Slotblog to get input from the other retro organizations out there concerning a point series format.

http://slotblog.net/topic/37501-ser...es-race-format/

Ken Stevens
Speedstar - Go fast, stay on, do laps!!

 Posted July 26th, 2012 09:58 AM   IP
uke
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I don't think it is an all or nothing thing... meaning no series someone wouldn't race. I think having a series motivates folks to race. I know for me, if it was not a point series, I would have missed a few races. With that said, I agree, I think it would be really cool to have a "big" race once or twice a year. Maybe we could get some out-of-towners to participate.

Ryan

Ryan



Old Slots of Fun (Plano) racer

 Posted July 26th, 2012 06:32 PM   IP
RLHofer
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I'll clarify my personal position a bit. I was not trying to discourage a points series. I just thought it presumptuous that anyone would AUTOMATICALLY presume we would have a points series again. Organizationally, our track record is not long. We've barely been together a year and a half. We ran A series(one series) in that time. We also ran a number of other races, NOT part of a series, with decent-to-good attendance. What I/we need to know from people(I hope for more input/participation in this discussion) is whether or not HAVING a series, or NOT having a series, will be a reason for anyone to NOT attend the races(?). If neither option will drive anyone away, well, that's a good thing and we're not facing a "big problem". If either option will prevent someone from attending, then further discussion would be a good thing. I don't see why either option would prevent anyone from racing since both options come down to the same thing... putting your car on the track and racing. Here's some more food for thought. If y'all were willing to ASSUME there would be another series, would it be safe to ALSO assume you'd expect box plaques for participation and podiums, and really cool wooden plaques for final series standings? If THAT'S the case, SOMEone is going to have to pony up the $ UP FRONT to BUY all that stuff ahead of time and be reimbursed race-by-race as "trophy fund" $ are collected at each race. I can't afford to do that. Let's get some more input from more of the racers(hopefully) and see where this leads. At the same time, I guess I should solicit input from tracks about whether or not they'd be willing to host one or more TRRA retro races whether part of a series or just as individual races. Let's keep it goin' guys; we've got to work through these things before the fun begins.


Remember, two wrongs don't make a right..... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and one block behind!

 Posted July 26th, 2012 09:27 PM   IP
overkill
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I will pay for all the box plaques up front and the wooden plaques a mounth before the last race, I also have a friend at Apple Grafices in Kansas that will make them for us. As far as the tire deal goes it doesn't matter to me, spec or not I truly think we should allow any tire like it was before. California changed there rules and we followed suit mid season. Everything was rolling along just fine with the tires up untill that point. I was just looking for a little clarity sence it was an isuse that was brought up at the meeting at Kyles when we were discusing the new rules for TRRA, and what I assumed was going to be our next series. Richard I think you did a great gob last series keeping every thing runing smooth, and I know how much of a pain it can be at times, but I hope you can pic up the tourch and put us another series together, Im ready to race.
ALL SCALE SLOT CAR RACEWAYS

 Posted July 27th, 2012 07:04 AM   IP
j j w
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i don't like series racing it makes me feel i am "forced" to go and it is not FUN to be forced .. for me i have other things that from time to time interfere with my "slotting" and it is hard for me to my head right to go to a series races and be behind because of my"outs".. i know it is my choice but maybe others have similar issues .. it just loses something for me . i use to travel quite a bit but for now no ..... i know others thrive for these and that is way cool .. just my two cents worth...
i still can't find it??

 Posted July 30th, 2012 06:34 PM   IP
RLHofer
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Series or no series, I'm looking at the following race dates:

August 18
September 15
October 13
November 17
December 15 *
January 12
February 16
March 16
April 20

I realize the August date is on short notice; I was trying to mirror the last series as much as I could and I thought some people were ready to race. Maybe not. If we don't start in August, we could start in September and press December into service(December was skipped last year) so as to finish in April again. We have the OK from DSC, ROMS and ASR for one or more TRRA races at their establishments. I figured I'd ask TSC this weekend although I bet I know the answer. If you guys have a preference for when you'd be willing to begin racing again, SPEAK UP. Let's begin with deciding on the August 18th date... Yea or Nay? The 25th is out as it would be in conflict with DSC's retro race. Also, just so everyone knows, I selected the the August, September and October dates to work around commitments Lonny already has that would prevent us from racing at ASR or prevent Lonny from racing with us.

Something else to consider... what classes will we run? I think 2 classes per race day is plenty; I'll rephrase that... I'm NOT going to run more than 2 classes in one day. We've run a total of 3 separate classes now: retro Can-Am, GTR and retro F-1. My preference is to run the two retro classes and drop flexi-GTR but I know that probably won't be a popular idea. If we DO continue to run GTR as a support class to the retro cars, what do y'all think about alternating retro-Can-Am and retro F-1 from one race to the next, keeping overall "retro" points regardless of which retro class is run? Let's hear it, folks; time's a-wastin'!




Remember, two wrongs don't make a right..... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and one block behind!

 Posted July 30th, 2012 08:10 PM   IP
moes36
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COOL.
East Texas Has slot car racing. Call Mor callison @ 903 316 7425 anytime

 Posted July 31st, 2012 07:16 AM   IP
Milkman
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I like the idea of alternating Can Am and F1. I think it breaks it up nicely. Plus I like the GTR class.
Ken Stevens
Speedstar - Go fast, stay on, do laps!!

 Posted July 31st, 2012 09:53 AM   IP
uke
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Hmmm... I have to think about the class question. First thought is that the F1 and Can-Am are too different to alternate. Folks might not have both so you may impact attendance on many fronts. Personally I would like to see both ran along with a flexi class, but it sounds like 3 races is not to be considered. So if it is two classes and 2 classes only (as much as I would hate it), this is the Texas Retro Racing Assoication, so I would lean towards dropping the flexi class and running the Can-Am and F1. Plus there are other series that you can run flexis in if that is your thing. I just worry that you would then make folks decide which series to run full-time and which to run part-time. I would probably be in that boat and not sure which would be which. And as I ramble and type as I think, if this all happened I would probably lean towards just hosting "big" races and scratch the point series. But that is a selfish viewpoint.

As for the schedule... I think these BIGGER issues need to be resolved before setting a schedule. I think having a race in August is very ambitious.

Ryan

Ryan



Old Slots of Fun (Plano) racer

 Posted July 31st, 2012 06:40 PM   IP
uncle fred
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Quote:
RLHofer wrote:
Let's get the conversation going about whether we collectively want to run another series or just conduct stand-alone races, one after the other. The more input from everyone, the better. Let me begin by saying that if we decide to not have a series doesn't mean we won't schedule the races the same as was done last year; we'd STILL schedule the races on the calendar so everyone would know what tracks will be raced at and when. Let the fur fly!


I'm not sure why this is even a issue? What would be gained by not having an organized series? Is it the plaques thing.....too expensive? Some things add legitimacy, like having rules and race dates and points.........and yes, maybe following nationally recognized rules.

 Posted July 31st, 2012 08:31 PM   IP
moes36
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series racing is LOTS more fun!!!!!!! Love the competitive spirit of that venue. Good rules, good tracks, good folks= **** good racing!!!!!!!!
East Texas Has slot car racing. Call Mor callison @ 903 316 7425 anytime

 Posted July 31st, 2012 10:51 PM   IP
RLHofer
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uncle fred wrote:I'm not sure why this is even a issue? What would be gained by not having an organized series?


It's not a matter of being an "issue" per se; rather, just expressing my own preference. And I don't know that it has to be expressed in a "gain/loss" paradigm. To me, just holding stand-alone races felt more relaxed. Also, a series is more administrative overhead; have I ever told y'all how lazy I am? LOL

OK, it's settled; we'll hold another series. There will be 8 races with 2 drops. We'll wait until September to start. Like I said somewhere else, I first suggested August to start just 'cause we started in August last year. But my predisposition regarding racing in California in July superseded any thought on my part about where we are now and what we will do in the near future. Now that we are "here", starting in August is way too optimistic; heck, people need more notice just to acquire parts. And spec tires will have to wait until NEXT year; there's just too much that has to be done in too little time. Let's share our thoughts and testing results as this series goes along and we should be able to select an adequate all-purpose tire by next Summer. I'll put y'all on notice that I'm giving y'all a couple more years of series' and a couple years of spec tires, THEN I'm going to selfishly run one year MY way... no series and no spec tires; that probably won't be until 2015/2016 so save your breath for now. Maybe when MY season rolls around, we'll run just one race on race day, but race every two weeks instead of just once a month(?). Imagine racing and leaving the track by 3pm - 4pm and having Saturday evening for whatever.... craaaazy, huh?

We have tracks lined up and we have prospective race dates; I still need to put the two together. Beyond that, the last big hurdle is what classes will we run? Retro Can-Am is a given. But what will the 2nd class be? Flexi/GTR? Or retro F-1? The idea behind running flexi's as a support class was to get whatever crossover participation we could... trying to "infect" some flexi racers with the retro bug. Do we still need to pursue that course of action? Do we have a strong enough core group of retro racers to go "all retro"? While that is my personal preference(all retro), does anyone else want "all retro" or do enough of you guys still want to mix-n-match flexi's with retro? And IF flexi's are to be the support class, is there any interest in alternating retro Can-Am with F-1 from race to race? Don't shoot me; it's just an idea.

Lonny, you said you'd be willing to acquire the box plaques and such; I'll let you. $12 entry fee per race, same as last year, with the track getting $10 per entry and $2 per entry going towards the trophy fund; I'll work with the tracks to get you your $2 per entry at the end of the night.

Anyone want to do the series spreadsheet duties? How 'bout you, Ryan? Anyone else just itching to help out by keeping the series spreadsheet?

And finally, I'll don my Joe Neumeister commemorative "Tech Nazi" cap and get up on the soapbox one more time. Our last hurdle on the tech frontier is to make sure we all have legal front clearance. Your chassis' should CLEAR(not drag) .015" at the forwardmost point of the chassis(excluding guide tongue). Measuring such clearance is done WITH ALL 4 WHEELS TOUCHING THE TECH BLOCK WITHOUT INTERFERENCE FROM THE GUIDE FLAG OR BRAID. In other words, your guide/braid is not used to raise the front end of your chassis to achieve the required clearance. This is the way it's always been in all retro racing organizations. I did everyone a disservice by not enforcing this requirement previously; I apologize to all. But I want us to have a level of legitimacy in our retro program such that anyone from any other retro organization could come race with us knowing that the playing field is level among all competitors and that his car will not be at a disadvantage. I keep harping on this front clearance issue 'cause fixing front clearance is not something that is easily done at the track on race day. Fixing a car that is too low in the front requires either putting on new front tires or dropping the front axle. Do yourselves a favor and buy a piece of .016" brass at your local hardware store and measure your own front clearance. Or buy a set of feeler guages that includes a .015" guage. I was told that I would be supported in my enforcement of the rules; I'm counting on that. But even that support won't diminish the pain I will truly feel if I have to refuse to let someone race due to not meeting the front clearance requirement. I BEG you all, PLEASE don't put me in that position. Tech your own cars ahead of time. Make them legal. If need be, send the car to me and I'll fix it for you; there's no reason for anyone to show up without the required front clearance. If you know someone that might race with us that doesn't follow our forum, touch base with them about any possible tech issues and help them get them cleared up before showing up to race. As I've said before, once the front clearance is achieved, it should be good for a loooooong time.


Remember, two wrongs don't make a right..... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and one block behind!

 Posted August 1st, 2012 07:29 AM   IP
uke
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I will do the spreadsheets... No problem.

Ryan

Ryan



Old Slots of Fun (Plano) racer

 Posted August 1st, 2012 07:55 AM   IP
metalman59
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I think 8 races is too much. 15 -20 people raced flexi class last year. F1 8- 10. Spec tire sounds good on paper. In reality, not so much.

 Posted August 1st, 2012 07:58 AM   IP
metalman59
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Quote:
uncle fred wrote:


I'm not sure why this is even a issue? What would be gained by not having an organized series? Is it the plaques thing.....too expensive? Some things add legitimacy, like having rules and race dates and points.........and yes, maybe following nationally recognized rules.


I find your comment kind of insulting Fred. I spent 20k plus to have a track to race retro.

 Posted August 1st, 2012 08:02 AM   IP
moes36
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You guys are funny. See you this weekend.
East Texas Has slot car racing. Call Mor callison @ 903 316 7425 anytime

 Posted August 1st, 2012 12:27 PM   IP
j j w
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ya HILARIOUS
i still can't find it??

 Posted August 1st, 2012 12:31 PM   IP
j j w
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you got dates but what about tracks...
i still can't find it??

 Posted August 1st, 2012 06:03 PM   IP
RLHofer
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As stated in a post above, the following tracks have said "Yes" to one or more races:

Dallas slot Cars
River Oaks Motor Speedway
All Scale Raceway

In addition, Ranger Raceway has said "Yes" and I expect to reach some agreement with Tyler Slot Cars this weekend.


Remember, two wrongs don't make a right..... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and one block behind!

 Posted August 1st, 2012 06:15 PM   IP
RLHofer
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"I'm not sure why this is even a issue? What would be gained by not having an organized series? Is it the plaques thing.....too expensive? Some things add legitimacy, like having rules and race dates and points.........and yes, maybe following nationally recognized rules. "

Quote:
metalman59 wrote:I find your comment kind of insulting Fred. I spent 20k plus to have a track to race retro.


???

I'm puzzled; I don't see anything negative in Fred's comments about your track or anything negative about retro in general. I'm pretty sure he was just making his pitch for having a series.


Remember, two wrongs don't make a right..... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and one block behind!

 Posted August 1st, 2012 08:56 PM   IP
uncle fred
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Thanks Rich. I certainly didn't intend to insult. I just think having random races will dilute the racing. Something will be lost at some level..........

 Posted August 1st, 2012 10:25 PM   IP
RLHofer
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We can agree to disagree, Fred. No matter; more seemed adamant about having a series so it's a done deal. To me, it's the same as no series in that 8 guys put their cars on the track and go for it.


Remember, two wrongs don't make a right..... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and one block behind!

 Posted August 2nd, 2012 11:56 AM   IP
Phil Smith
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I was told years ago that series attendance starts dropping off after a couple of races because the racers that aren't doing well get discouraged and quit. I don't know if that's true or not. If it is true, that might be a good reason not have a series. But it seems your series had a really good turnouts, so maybe your results disproves the theory.

 Posted August 2nd, 2012 01:48 PM   IP
Milkman
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I think that's where drops make a difference. In an 8 race series with 2 drops the competion is closer. When you look at our last season I think we had 6 - 8 racers (about half of our field of regulars) in contention to place in the top 3. And it took the last race of the series to settle the final results. I think it made it a very fun and exciting last race and for me I'm really looking forward to the upcoming season.


Quote:
Phil Smith wrote:
I was told years ago that series attendance starts dropping off after a couple of races because the racers that aren't doing well get discouraged and quit. I don't know if that's true or not. If it is true, that might be a good reason not have a series. But it seems your series had a really good turnouts, so maybe your results disproves the theory.

Ken Stevens
Speedstar - Go fast, stay on, do laps!!

 Posted August 2nd, 2012 05:01 PM   IP
moes36
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YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! HEHEHEHEHEHEHHE
East Texas Has slot car racing. Call Mor callison @ 903 316 7425 anytime

 Posted August 2nd, 2012 07:00 PM   IP
RLHofer
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If someone prefers to not race for whatever reason, it would be presumptuous of me to try and get them to stay; their brand of fun obviously awaits them elsewhere. To each his own.




Remember, two wrongs don't make a right..... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and one block behind!

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