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Smash Bros. Online

Do not put off tomorrow what you can put off today.

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Smashbrosfreak
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Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted April 23rd, 2008 03:08 PM IP

Ok, most of you have a history of being Nintendo fans, so I figure I'll post this here to see if anyone has any idea what I'm talking about. If you do, I would love to discuss it with you. If you don't, and you're interested in learning, then stick around, because I'm going to dump the whole story here over a period of time. Be warned, though - it's a LONG story.

We hold beliefs as a consolation
A way to take us out of ourselves
Meditation or medication
A comfort or a promised reward
Sometimes the spirit is too strong or the flesh is too weak
Sometimes the need is just too great for the solace we seek
The suit of shining armor becomes a keen and bloody sword
A refuge for the coming night
A future of eternal light
No one gets to their heaven without a fight

Smashbrosfreak
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Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted April 23rd, 2008 03:53 PM IP

All right, the mystery/conspiracy called Stop n' Swop is a story best told from the eye of a gamer, instead of cronologically. I'll reveal the secrets behind the scenes later, but in order to comprehend them, you'll need to know what's going on.

OK, I suppose I should start from the very beginning: The game is N64's Banjo-Kazooie. Great adventure game, definitely one of my favorites. It beats Mario 64 in my book. Anyway, the game is fun and all, but after you've beaten it, and gotten everything, you're left with a residue... A very ugly residue. One that has tormented players for almost a decade, including myself.

Speaking of Mario 64, I'll use it as an example to explain Banjo-Kazooie, for those unfamiliar. Like M64, in Banjo-Kazooie (Hereafter referred to as "BK") you play as a bear named Banjo, who wears a blue backpack. In the backpack is his bird friend, Kazooie, and the two work as a team to explore nine worlds searching for "Jiggy" (Jigsaw) pieces. The Jiggies grant you access to new worlds and new parts of the game, once you collect enough. Collecting a certain amount of Jiggies will give you a different game ending... but more on that later.

Let's fast-forward to world 5 of BK, called Freezeezy Peak (hereafter referred to as FP). In FP, for certain parts of the level, you take the form of a walrus. (In these games, you get to transform into stuff.) There is a cave in this level with a walrus named Wozza living in it, hence, Wozza's cave. If you go into this cave in the form of Banjo and Kazooie, you can reach another ledge in the cave that hides an alcove. Inside the alcove, you see a giant floating ice key, but you can't get to it - there's a wall blocking it. Though you may not realize it at the time, this is the beginning of the Stop n' Swop mystery.

~~More later.~~CONTINUED

By the way, is anybody wondering where the name "Stop n' Swop" comes from? Well, I'm not telling yet.

I don't really have to spoil much of the game to explain the mystery, but it does involve the ending. Skipping past the ice key in FP, as it is the most blatantly obvious mystery of Stop n' Swop (hereafter referred to as SNS), we have to fast forward to the end of the game to tell the next part of the story.

Beating the game doesn't really do anything more than give you an ending. In the ending, Mumbo (The shaman who turns you into things) holds up three photographs, and hints to you that he will only show them if you collect all 100 jiggy pieces.

So, go and do that...

When you return to the ending with 100 jiggies, Mumbo again shoves the photos in your face, saying something along the lines of, "These are secrets. To be used in next game, Banjo Tooie." (No, I don't have a typing problem, Mumbo talks like that.) Anyway, I believe I can define the mystery of SNS with three "punched in the face" moments, starting with the photos.

PUNCH IN THE FACE #1: MUMBO'S PHOTOGRAPHS

First, I must tell you that these aren't pictures; they're actually short movies, and they're shown as actual gameplay.

Here they are:

PHOTO #1: "Photo" number one shows Banjo (you) in world 2, a sea level called Treasure Trove Cove. (hereafter referred to as TTC.) In TTC, there is a small island with a sign on it that reads, "Sharkfood Island." Sharkfood Island is actually just a rock almost totally submerged in water... but in this movie, the island appears to have risen out of the water. Banjo enters the newly risen rock through an opening at the base, and inside is a rather large pillar. The pillar has chunks taken out of its sides, which Banjo then uses as platforms to climb the pillar. Once at the top, he finds an unusual new item: A big pink egg, about his size, spinning in circles. It has white question marks on it. At this point, the video ends.

PHOTO #2: In this video, Banjo enters Wozza's cave in FP. (sound familiar yet?) He goes to the familiar ledge, you see the ice key... except this time, the ice wall blocking it is gone. Banjo slowly approaches the key, and the movie ends.

Here, Banjo and Kazooie comment on how they've seen it before, but Mumbo silences them and tells them they won't find out about it until the next game.

PHOTO #3: In this video, Banjo is in World 6, a desert world called Gobi's Valley. (You guessed it, this world is hereafter referred to as GV.) In this world, there is an alcove to the side of the level in a wall. In this alcove is a doorway that's blocked off. This really isn't suspicious... that is, until Mumbo's third photo shows Banjo entering the now open doorway. Inside, there is an Egyptian coffin and a golden switch. Banjo hits the golden switch, opening the coffin, and inside is another egg that fits the description of the one from TTC. This one, however, is blue. End of video.

So, the solution is simple, right? Wait until the next game comes out, and then all will be revealed. However, it would be two more years until the game called Banjo-Tooie would come out, and for those of us shocked by this secret information, we couldn't wait that long. Let the conspiracy theories begin.

More later.

NEXT POST: Are the secret items obtainable?
(Edited by Smashbrosfreak)
(Edited by Smashbrosfreak)

Smashbrosfreak
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Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted April 23rd, 2008 06:30 PM IP

By the way, please wait until I'm done telling the story to post any theories.

Smashbrosfreak
Contender

Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted April 24th, 2008 02:54 AM IP

Ok kids, grab the popcorn, because it's time for the next part of the story! (I wonder if anyone will even notice a new topic in this forum. XP)

Here's a recap on all the abbreviations I've used so far:

SNS - Stop N' Swop. You'll learn the meaning of this later.
BK - Banjo-Kazooie.
TTC - World 2, Treasure Trove Cove. The pink egg is hidden in this world. Also in TTC, There's a floor inside a sandcastle with letters on the ground; this is where you input the game's codes. I forgot to mention that part, but it'll be important later.
FP - Freezeezy Peak, World 5. This is where the ice key is hidden.
GV - Goby's Valley, World 6. This is where the blue egg is hidden.

Anyway, we left off at the end of BK. The game was over, but we were left with questions. Was the gameplay taken from BK? If so, do we NEED to play the second game to obtain the items in BK? And if the answer to that is no, how do we go about getting them?

I remember subscribing to the magazine Expert Gamer at the time - every month, it had another part of a walkthrough for BK. After they had covered all the worlds, one part of the mag was dedicated to the ending and the secret items. As you could guess, there was a small section dedicated to the ice key and eggs. There, this guy vented all his theories on how to get the key...

Tried every possible attack on the ice wall? Tried flying into Wozza's cave and dive bombing the wall? Tried flying over the cave and looking for an alternate entrance? Tried searching the game for possible clues?

We tried all of it and more. He even went so far as to suggest that "Banjo-Tooie" was a sequel hidden somewhere in BK, but Rare was nice enough to let us know that wasn't the case, and after a period of time, Rare announced publicly that Banjo-Tooie was a seperate game, to be released sometime in 2000.

But we still had our crazy theories. See the list of them above? That was only for the ice key. The actual list of crap us hopefuls had tried was much longer, and it included the eggs as well.

One bad thing the mystery of the items did to us was that it made us extremely suspicious about things that didn't really matter. A perfect example of this is the mystery of the "Lava World."

~~More in a bit, I'm gonna go get some food...~~

Hm. I never got any food, I just fell asleep. Anyway...

Gobi's Valley has a camel named Gobi. (lol u c wat they did thar??) When we first meet Gobi, he's tied to a stake in the middle of nowhere. Upon freeing him, he gives us a jiggy and happily runs off. Of course, this isn't the last we see of Gobi...

We quickly discover that attacking Gobi makes him spit water, and in the desert, there are plenty of places where doing this fulfills certain goals. For example, a tree in the beginning of the world is parched and needs water ASAP... so, why not whack the camel and give it some water? This is done about three spots in the level before Gobi finally gets ticked off at us and runs away.

What does this have to do with the Lava World? Patience, grasshopper...

Gobi isn't seen again until world 9, Click Clock Wood (which I won't abbreviate because at this point, it has little to do with SNS). Let me first explain that this world is a little different... it has four seasons. Each season is the same world, just... well... in a different season, i.e. Summer, Autumn, etc. Anyway, in the seasons of Spring, Summer, and Autumn, one goal you have is to grow a giant flower. Now, flowers need water, and where do you get water? Gobi. He's camped out next to it. After getting him to give water twice more in two different seasons, Gobi is furious, and he tells us that he's going to the "Lava World," where you will never find him.

"OMGWTFLOL!" We exclaimed. Remember, the thesis here is that the eggs and ice key made us suspicious of things that weren't really that big of a deal. Of course, seeing as this game is full of hints about the next one, could this be another one of those, or is the Lava World a clue? Of course, everybody tried for hours on end to find an entrance to the the possible secret world, including myself, and we all failed.

These theories and failed attempts lasted us at least to the release of Banjo-Tooie.

NEXT POST: BANJO-TOOIE

Stay tuned.
(Edited by Smashbrosfreak)

Smashbrosfreak
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Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted April 30th, 2008 12:03 AM IP

Ok, update time.

Abbreviation recap:

SNS - Stop N' Swop. You'll learn the meaning of this later.
BK - Banjo-Kazooie.
BT - Banjo-Tooie.
TTC - World 2, Treasure Trove Cove. The pink egg is hidden in this world.
FP - Freezeezy Peak, World 5. This is where the ice key is hidden.
GV - Goby's Valley, World 6. This is where the blue egg is hidden.

*ahem*

2000 Nov 19

After two and a half years, this is the date on which Banjo-Tooie was released. Good game, of course; I would rank it up there with BK. But then, this story is about SNS, not how good the games are, so let's get on with it.

We'll start with the mystery of the Lava World. First off, in world 3 of BT, we run into none other than Gobi again, who is locked up inside a cage. He's grown a beard, signifying he's been there for a long time. Upon releasing him, he's still ticked off, and he mumbles that he's now once again off to the Lava world.

Fast forward to world 7, Hailfire Peaks. This world is a giant mountain. On one half is a lot of snow, and the other half is a volcano. Eventually, we find Gobi again. At this point, he concedes to you and gives up running away. Let's see... world full of Lava + Gobi = Lava World. Mystery solved.

So what about the eggs and the ice key? Well, about halfway through the game, there's a house shaped like a giant egg. Inside is a hen named Heggy. There are two floors in this house, and on the bottom is a nest with an egg in it. Shockingly, it's a question mark egg that resembles one of the secrets... but it's yellow. Hmm...

Let me first get this out of the way...

PUNCH IN THE FACE #2: BANJO-TOOIE

Yes, that's a punch in the face. Let me explain further by telling about how SNS was implemented in BT.

...Bah! I gotta go. (No, I really do.) I'll continue this update in a bit.

Waluigi911
Member

Posts: 1642
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted May 1st, 2008 06:52 PM IP

I'm confused pretty well about what the heck Stop 'N' Swop (Swap misspelled?) is supposed to be, but I follow ya. Banjo-Kazooie held my attention in my younger years... what saddens me is that I never really completed it.

I never completed DK 64 either... in fact, I never even beat it. It glitched on me so I couldn't find this essential item so I was stuck forever, and I didn't want to start over, so that was where it ended: some level with some giant mushrooms in it.

Anyways, go on.

For it is not enough to have a good mind: one must use it well. -Ren� Descartes

Smashbrosfreak
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Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted May 13th, 2008 02:29 PM IP

1. Fungi Forest. I remember that level so well because, get this, it might have a role in the Stop N' Swop mystery. (Yes, between BK and DK64.) I'll get into that later, though.

2. I'm not misspelling the "Swop" in SNS. That's how the game itself spells it, therefore that's what we call it.

3. I'll finish this by tomorrow if it kills me. I seem to lose my pace a lot. >_<

Smashbrosfreak
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Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted June 13th, 2008 12:32 AM IP

Ok, between internet problems and gaming related distractions, I think I'll actually make myself finish this. lol, it's like this whole board runs on slow motion.

Anyway, in BT, three small things are hidden in various places in the game. They are, literally, three living hopping Banjo-Kazooie cartridges. (Because BK is a lot like Mario in where everything has eyes.) They mock you, but once you figure out how to get to them, you smack them and an item comes out. Accordingly, the items you get from them are the eggs and ice key.

Again, OMGWTFLOL. The eggs are all taken to Heggy's, and with a new move called hatch, you can hatch the eggs. (Unfortunately, all I can recall is that one of the eggs gives you a multiplayer character.) And the key? Well, again, I forget how that works, but it ultimately unlocks a feature that turns kazooie into a fire-breathing dragon. Pretty cool unlockable, if I do say so myself.

Here is why BT was ultimately a punch in the face, though. See, when you get all of this stuff and finish the game, after the dust clears, that's it. Grunty (I don't think I've mentioned her yet... she's the bad guy) says something about Banjo-Threeie, but it sounds more like a joke. Nothing secret-item related happens at the end. What I'm trying to say is, the items give you secrets in BT, but BK is still unsolved. Were we supposed to get anything in BK? Why were Mumbo's photos shown as actual gameplay? Why is Sharkfood Island still small, why is there still a wall between Banjo and the ice key, and why is the doorway in GV still closed? Therefore, a punch in the face.

The sting wouldn't last very long though, because something was about to happen that would change the very nature of the mystery itself for a long time.

NEXT POST: Punch in the face #3, a.k.a. kick in the balls #3.

Smashbrosfreak
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Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted June 13th, 2008 03:03 PM IP

Hmm. For some reason I haven't mentioned the sandcastle in TTC yet. Right, well, the sandcastle in World two is an area with every letter of the alphabet on the ground in a checkered pattern. Originally, you play a game where you have a certain amount of time to pound the ground, spelling "Banjo-Kazooie" with the letters to earn a jiggy. Afterwards, though, the sandcastle turns into the spot where all the game's cheats are entered. Some cheats are revealed in the game, some are just for fun, but there is one infamous cheat list - one with cheats that give you infinite items, open worlds, etc. It is commonly known that if you use more than two of these, Gruntilda will erase your game.

Anyway, I just had to get the sandcastle thing out of the way. Now on to the main event:

On January 13, 2001, hackers SubDrag and Ice Mario of Rarewitchproject.com successfully hacked the Banjo-Kazooie cartridge and found, within the code of the game itself, a bunch of sandcastle codes that supposedly unlocked the secret items. When the codes were tested, they worked.

Let me rewind the story really quick here, though. I personally later found out that the first secret item to be collected was the ice key. I don't know when, but it was discovered that by using a gameshark code to do a moon jump over Wozza's cave, Banjo could get over the wall to the ice key. Interestingly, the wall could be exited from, but not entered.

Anyway, the item codes were found, and soon after their discovery, SubDrag and Ice Mario released the codes. Here they are:

+ Ice key +
Enter this code into the sand castle, without spaces:
CHEAT NOW YOU CAN SEE A NICE ICE KEY WHICH YOU CAN HAVE FOR FREE

+ Blue egg +
Enter this code into the sand castle, without spaces:
CHEAT A DESERT DOOR OPENS WIDE ANCIENT SECRETS WAIT INSIDE

+ Pink egg +
Enter this code into the sand castle, without spaces:
CHEAT OUT OF THE SEA IT RISES TO REVEAL MORE SECRET PRIZES

+ Cyan egg +
Enter this code into the sand castle, without spaces:
CHEAT DONT YOU GO AND TELL HER ABOUT THE SECRET IN HER CELLAR

+ Red egg +
Enter this code into the sand castle, without spaces:
CHEAT THIS SECRET YOULL BE GRABBIN IN THE CAPTAINS CABIN

+ Yellow egg +
Enter this code into the sand castle, without spaces:
CHEAT NOW BANJO WILL BE ABLE TO SEE IT ON NABNUTS TABLE

+ Green egg +
Enter this code into the sand castle, without spaces:
CHEAT AMIDST THE HAUNTED GLOOM A SECRET IN THE BATHROOM

That's right. Seven codes, and seven items. Not only is the yellow egg from BT in BK, but three other eggs that were previously non-existant are now here. Of course, we were all crapping ourselves.

Putting in the ice key code showed a cutscene of the key. Likewise, every code showed a hint for its item. The yellow egg is on a table in a squirrel's house in the Winter season of Click Clock wood. The Green egg is atop a toilet in a room in Mad Monster Mansion, world 7. The cyan egg is in a cellar in Mad Monster Mansion. The red egg is on a bed in a captain's room in Rusty Bucket Bay, world 8.

Upon entering one of these secret areas, music plays that isn't anywhere else in BK. It's really mysterious music that makes you feel all special for having just gotten here.

This is also known as the Stop n' Swop music, a tune which is forever etched into the minds of Banjo-Kazooie fans.

I myself was surprised at the location of the cyan egg. In the cellars of MMM (abbreviations, hur, because this is an important world to SNS), there are eight barrels, and seven of them can be broken to reveal items and things. The eighth is boarded up and unbreakable, and the sandcastle cheat opens it up. Who would've guessed...

Anyway, as far as obtaining the items go, the game again plays a special tune for getting each item. Upon grabbing the ice key on its pedestal, Kazooie says, "Cool... an enormous ice key! We ought to keep this for later..."

Likewise, when the eggs are collected, they explode into a shower of colored sparks. The pink egg bursts into pink and white sparks, the red egg bursts into red and white sparks, and so on. When one egg is collected, Banjo says, "Oooh... an egg! I'm sure we'll find a use for this somewhere..." Upon collecting a second egg, Banjo says, "Wow... another one of those special eggs!" After two eggs, however, he stops saying anything at all.

So what happens now? Well, on the pause screen, after the screens that show your results for each level, one more appears that shows every secret item you've collected so far. The top of the screen reads:

"STOP N' SWOP"

...and it shows the ice key and six eggs spinning.

At this point, let me step back in time again. After the ice key was originally collected and the SNS screen showed, some more Gameshark hacking revealed that it was possible to collect the eggs, but doing that would show you the eggs on the upper left side of the screen. This was unusual because if there were only three SNS items, they would be arranged symmetrically. This was the first clue that there were more eggs, but anybody who wasn't hacking the game at the time didn't have a clue as to what was going on.

Fast forward again, we have the items now. The next question is, what can they be used for? Well...

PUNCH IN THE FACE #3: THE OBTAINING OF THE STOP 'N' SWOP ITEMS

I would like to say what they're for, I really would. There's only one problem, however: I don't know. Nobody knows, and nobody has known since Banjo-Kazooie was released one decade ago. What the items were for, or what they are for, or whether or not they are still able to do something, is still a mystery to this very day. On that January 13, when the codes to unlock the SNS items were found, the mystery changed from "How do we get the items?" to "What are the items for?"

This is certainly not the end of the story, however, so I hope you'll stay tuned, because in my next post, I'll go into detail about the progress that has been made in the mystery so far, some more light reading on this subject, and perhaps why Rare won't give us any answers, as well as detail the theories, hoaxes, good ideas, bad ideas, press releases, references, and thoughts on the concept of the mystery itself.

Stick around.

Smashbrosfreak
Contender

Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted June 13th, 2008 04:38 PM IP

Thought I'd leave you guys with this for now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu2T...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb6v...feature=related

Darkfalcon Smarter than the average bear Posts: 121 Registered: May 2006	Posted August 9th, 2008 02:41 PM IP Got something for you 'freak: apearently Stop 'n Swop was supposed to connect with Banjo Tooie, but was never completed. X-Box Live Arcade will relese both games when the new BK game comes out and will make full use of Stop 'n Swop. Yes! Darkfalcon DOES still exist

Smashbrosfreak
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Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted August 11th, 2008 12:57 PM IP

Oh? The rumor was that all would be revealed in Nuts n' Bolts, but I haven't heard this yet. Link, please?

Maybe I should update this topic soon. I don't have time today, though; I'll have to try Tuesday or Wednesday.

Waluigi911 Member Posts: 1642 Registered: Jan 2004	Posted August 11th, 2008 04:23 PM IP I'm sorry, what? Nuts 'N' Bolts? For it is not enough to have a good mind: one must use it well. -Ren� Descartes

Smashbrosfreak
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Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted August 18th, 2008 12:01 AM IP

The new Banjo-Kazooie for 360. It's due out November sometime.

Smashbrosfreak
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Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted October 9th, 2008 08:52 PM IP

*sigh*

Ok, guys � Time for me to pack every last bit of info into this topic, because Nuts �n Bolts is only one month away, as is the release of BK and BT on Xbox Live. After doing a significant amount of research, I can say for sure that SNS is integrated into the XBL games, but I am doubtful � doubtful of whether or not this will answer everything, or what this will do for N&B. Either way, I was in denial at first, but now it seems that after being shafted by Banjo-Tooie, the answers ARE coming this time.

Right now, I do feel excited, but that excitement is mixed with anticipation and nervousness. Fear of the unknown, in other words. SNS is, after all, an enigma that has been in the back of my mind since I was ten years old. When I was ten, this whole thing was nothing more than two mysterious eggs and an untouchable ice key. Nobody would�ve even known what �Stop �N Swop� was. Now, at the age of 20, I have the eggs (including four that nobody predicted), the key, and I can provide you with multiple theories about what happened to SNS. When I was ten, wondering how to get those secret items was only half of the battle; I also wondered of course what they did, and this is the thing that I as a child and I as an adult have in common. Neither one of us has any clue what those items are intended for.

Ten years is a long time. In that time, the Banjo-Kazooie fans unearthed the secret codes for the items, pondered, wondered, and questioned what they did, and we (maybe) deduced the reason SNS was scrapped. However, ten years after the release of BK, we�ve hit a dead end. Both BK and BT have been hacked to ashes, and the ashes of the ashes have been hacked. The theories that maybe there�s some secret level out there, or a secret function, or anything spanning across multiple games, has been disproved for this reason. Over the last ten years, anybody who could figure out how to unlock the whole thing � legitimately or illegitimately � would have been granted immortal status. Hackers Subdrag and Ice Mario were the ones to find the Sandcastle codes for SNS and post their findings, which is the reason I can recall their names, even if they are screen names, off the top of my head. There may not be an answer left within BK and BT, but we continued to ask questions.

Questioning SNS is sometimes like questioning the existence of God himself. Some people believe, some don�t, and some stopped caring long ago. SNS means more to some people than others, but to those of us that still care, we hold on. All in all, we may not care about the issue so much if Rare themselves stopped dropping hints and referring to it. Every smirk that a Rare programmer made and every hint of �you�re getting closer� was enough to keep us searching for answers for another month or two. The answers to our questions are our holy grail, and once every last question is answered on this matter, we will be satisfied.

If anybody happens to be wondering why these secret items are such a big deal, let me tell you something that I have not yet brought up in this topic. Over the years, SNS has expanded. The games only left us wondering what the items do, but the hackings, findings, and theories over the years have definitely uncovered information, and that information only gives us more questions.

How long was Fungi Forest intended to be a level in BK?
Why do the words �ICE KEY� show up in Donkey Kong 64�s programming?
And does Blackbeard the pirate REALLY have anything to do with SNS?

If you think that the Eggs and Ice key are all that make up SNS nowadays, then unfortunately, you�re still not very knowledgeable about this subject. Clearly, the SNS of 1998 and the SNS of 2008 are very different things � a different issue with different questions and the BK community continues to wonder whether this reality will be reflected in the new XBL games. Now, granted, we may all feel like kids again when we play the new games. Most of the questions we asked in 1998 were answered, but in a different way than we intended. For example, we wondered how to get the secret items. We figured the answer would come from BT, but instead we got a different way to get secrets in BT and we had to hack the codes to get the items from BK itself. That answers our question about how to get the items, but we�re still in the dark on how the items were intended to be collected, or where exactly in BT we were supposed to find those Sandcastle codes. (Without a doubt, those codes WERE intended to be used, seeing as they were in BK�s programming.)

Anyway, in my older posts I told you the story of SNS, circa 2001 or so. Between now and the release of the games, I will tell you the up to date story of SNS. In other words, I�ll pick out every theory and also provide my take on it.

One month to go�

Waluigi911 Member Posts: 1642 Registered: Jan 2004	Posted November 12th, 2008 02:09 PM IP I just saw a commercial for the new Banjo-Kazooie game on TV the other day. This actually kind of sucks 'cause they're only going to be on the XBox, which means no Banjo-Kazooie for the Virtual Console, and no characters in any future Smash Bros. games. For it is not enough to have a good mind: one must use it well. -Ren� Descartes

Smashbrosfreak
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Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted November 12th, 2008 02:20 PM IP

I thought I mentioned this earlier, but it appears not.

We know what SNS is, so what WAS it? Again, many different theories... But here's the most widely believed one.

Originally, SNS items were meant to be transferred between games via "hot-swapping." The idea takes advantage of the fact that when a 64 cartridge is removed from the console, the game leaves a temporary memory imprint on the console itself. This is a fact. What would happen was, there would be a place where you could stop the game and swap one cartridge for the other. Stop n' Swop.

Now, with this information, another question arose: where was this meant to take place? Most widely believed theory: A plot device in BK has Grunty the witch kidnapping Banjo's sister to perform a sort of reverse-beautification process. There is a chamber in her tower with two machines, the idea being that the both of them enter, and Grunty comes out beautiful while Tooty (B's sis) is ugly. So anyway, there is certain speculation that SNS was going to happen in this room...

Oh, but I'm getting off track. So hot swapping was the original plan, but Nintendo looked it over and found two flaws:

1. Removing the cartridge with the system still on could potentially damage the system.

2. Turned out the memory imprint on the system only lasted for one second, as opposed to the ten seconds that Rare thought they had.

And so, Rare was forced to scrap the project - or at least, that part of it. But here's the problem: The deadline for the game was looming, and they'd already delayed it a few times. Fans were getting too eager. So, Rare made the decision to pull the plug on SNS. Problem is, although there was no functionality, they basically left everything else behind. Was it an accident that they left it behind, having no time to take it out, or did they have something up their sleeves? Of course, if I start asking these questions, then here we go all over again...

The game came out, people soon beat it, they saw Mumbo's pics, and they wanted to get the ice key and eggs. Thus begins my story all over again.

By the way, I didn't know this until yesterday, but apparently Nuts n' Bolts came out today. Kind of messes with my plans, but I'll have to pick it up tomorrow. I get paid tomorrow. So, then, I'll be replaying BK and slipping in some time for that game starting tomorrow...

Oh, but my point here is that, since the new game is out, it's high time for me to finally give my "what will happen" SNS prediction. I have to turn the comp over to my mom, and I'll be back.

(EDIT: lol, Wally, when I started this post, yours wasn't there yet.)

Smashbrosfreak
Contender

Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted November 12th, 2008 03:51 PM IP

Yeah, it does kind of suck. That's one of the main reasons I wanted a 360, though. If a new BK game was to come out, I probably wouldn't be able to live without it...

Anyway, I have to post my theories soon, or else they'll be invalid.

With the release of the new Banjo-Kazooie games, what will happen to SNS?

This focuses mainly on the original for Xbox live. I have two theories, and I see one of them likely happening over the other.

THEORY #1: Nothing is going to change until Banjo-Tooie is re-released, or very little will change.

The reasoning behind this is that BK was once supposed to exchange data with BT, was it not? Well, at least for now, only one game is coming out. I wouldn't be surprised if this new game ends exactly the way the old one does, but this time around we'll actually get answers in game #2.

THEORY #2: Something big will happen within this version of the game, and it will immediately become controversial.

In previews of the new version of the game, it was added that SNS would be fully functional. While my first theory still stands, I can't ignore the wording in the previews, and trust me, in ten years I have learned well how unpredictable Rare can be. So, with this theory I am leaving the door open for something to happen. Should something happen, though, I believe that it would immediately come under scrutiny, and fans (myself included) would ask if this is what was originally supposed to happen.

I honestly believe that theory #1 would be the better path for them to take, as that would likely be how the game was supposed to play out, but what do I know? If you've read all the BK/SNS theories, the beta game and the final result sometimes sound like two completely different games. Maybe they will stick closer to the beta version, but no matter what they do, I'm positive that any questions that get answered will only unearth more questions...

There's also a variable that throws this entire thing out of whack, and that would be Nuts n' Bolts. I've heard of possible interactions between Banjo Kazooie (XB360) and N&B, and if those are present, people will wonder (again, myself included) if they were an original intention of Rare. Probably not, but of course, that opens the door for the ages-old SNS question: "Or WAS it?"

Our infamous SNS questions have a long history of creating more questions once they are answered, though. As I mentioned in my great big SNS speech above, 1998 SNS was about two eggs and a key. 2008 SNS has evolved into something much bigger and much uglier. We now know one way to get the SNS items, and we now know (possibly) why the project was scrapped. Most of 1998 SNS is solved; none of 2008 SNS is solved. The release of these new games is to 2008 as the hacking and TTC codes were to 1998, so to speak.

Remaining '98 questions:

- What do the items do?

We now know that the items do nothing, at least not in BK. However, we've since been on a continuing quest to discover what they DID. The new live arcade games will hopefully shed light on this.

- How are we supposed to get these items?

We know that you put in codes, but we don't know where you were supposed to get the codes legitimately. The best theory is that codes were obtained somewhere in the second game.

For that matter, will the codes in the new version of BK change? I mean, we all know the codes to get the items, so does this mean that will be able to enter the codes prematurely and get the items? Some people will undoubtedly try this, but I'm not going to. Should the codes work, they'll get a jump start on the mystery, but meh... good for them, I guess. I'd like to see the whole picture play out the way it was supposed to.

Well, enough of my rambling for now. I feel like I'm about to go over some people's heads. Tonight, (I promise,) I'll come back and highlight the 2008 SNS questions, as well as post some extras. For now, I'm going back to my N64 to continue my nostalgia.

Stay tuned.

Waluigi911
Member

Posts: 1642
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted November 12th, 2008 05:55 PM IP

Quote:
Smashbrosfreak wrote:
(EDIT: lol, Wally, when I started this post, yours wasn't there yet.)

Wow, what're the odds, eh?

Didn't you mention earlier that there was a connection with Donkey Kong 64 somehow?

Obviously, that ain't gonna be on Xbox Live Arcade... But I think a lot of what they were planning can't be done now... And they will likely have changed up a lot of things. If they do this, and you discover what they do in your 2008 releases, how is that going to answer what the eggs might have actually been intended to do in 1998?

For it is not enough to have a good mind: one must use it well. -Ren� Descartes

Smashbrosfreak
Contender

Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted November 13th, 2008 02:37 AM IP

Exactly.

See, if the sandcastle codes had not only allowed you to obtain the items but unlocked the whole mode, then the mystery would be solved and nobody would care about the little stuff. However, that's not the case, and now, ten years later, we have two variables that make the mystery take a new turn. First, we have N&B. Second is the fact that ten years is a long time, and that in turn is more than enough time to blow this whole thing out of proportion. BK's link to DK64 is not really a confirmed fact, and that's something we'll more than likely never see.

I had a theory about SNS, but that was before these new games. I didn't think there was going to be a third, and therefore I was holding out on hope that some buried secret was able to unlock something. That, or I was hoping that Rare would spill the beans eventually on what was. It's simply the human nature to know the unknown, and that's how people get sucked into this... Anyway, fans are looking forward now, not only because of the new games, but also because, as I like to say, the games have been hacked to ashes, and the ashes of the ashes have been hacked. Game, set, and match, there's nothing there.

Sounds depressing, but we can still ask what was, and now it appears they're going to begin not only telling us, but showing us. I can try to predict this all I want, but what I'm going to want to do is sit back and see what plays out - It'll get sorted out from there. Or, not, whatever. 2008 SNS could turn into 2009 SNS, with completely different issues once again...

Ah, I'm getting ahead of myself again. In this topic, I never really went into detail about what 2008 SNS is. So, instead of writing it all in a cluster, I'm going to ask the most common and the most important. Here we go:

By the way, expect a lot of videos in here.

Question: Was there ever a link between DK64 and Banjo-Kazooie?

Well, to start, here's an entire article about the possible connection of the two:

http://www.rarewitchproject.com/?id=1274

But, if you don't feel like reading that, I'll give a few pieces of evidence here.

The biggest piece of evidence: The words "ICE KEY" in DK64's programming: (You can enlarge this image in the above article)

What happened after that... well... I can only describe with this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWLhww_IM6g

Another big piece of evidence: Fungi Forest. This is DK64's fifth world, and coincidentally, this was originally intended to be the fifth world in BK. No big deal? Aside from the fact that BK's current fifth world, Freezeezy Peak, holds the ice key, Fungi forest music has been found in BK's programming... and also, this is an ice world. All of the walls in the scenery of the level are grey and white, with one exception... There is one wall in a part of the level that is green. Unusual? Yes. It's for these reasons that Fungi forest was thought to be a hidden level in Banjo-Kazooie, but this was ruled out under the means that if it were true, it would have been discovered a long time ago.

Here's a video attempting to link Fungi Forest instead with Clanker's Cavern (BK world 3): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK6h...feature=related

Another important piece of evidence is the SNS music. Both games had the same music composer, but what's more is a certain fanfare... it plays when you get an SNS item, and - get this - this is the exact same fanfare that plays when you unlock a boss in DK64. Was Rare just lazy, or...? There's a comparison in the article above.

Ok, I feel like I've exausted the DK64 thing now, so let's move on to the next important theory.

Question: Did Captain Blackeye have anything to do with SNS?

While the DK64 connection is interesting, this is the other theory that interests me the most. (In case you're sitting there thinking, "Wait, I thought his name was Blackbeard," I'm sorry, I got his name wrong above.) Anyway, in world 4 of BT, there's a pirate drinking in a seperate room of a pub. When you speak to him, he says, "Arr, I had a dream once... I were in this fine game..." and then he rambles on about how someone stole it.

Well, here is why Blackeye is such a big deal. First of all, here's a background check. "Project Dream" was what Banjo-Kazooie was called while under development. There is speculation that either Blackeye starred in the game, or he was extremely relevant to SNS. Another thing: The three pictures on the walls around him are suspicious. They are as follows: A map of Treasure Trove cove, a picture of a raised Sharkfood Island, and a picture of the pink SNS egg on its perch in Sharkfood Island. Hmm...

There are your two biggest theories. I'll post the rest tomorrow, because this is stressing me out. XP A few things, though, before I go. First, this video about SNS, which I find very good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI_j-sDpVG8

Second, a few updates that I've learned very recently.

1. I watched the Banjo-Kazooie trailer, and it says something about SNS being realized if you have N&B. I guess I can assume from this that my Theory #2 is likely going to come true.
2. There's already a topic up on the Rare Witch Project forums about SNS in N&B. I'm not going to read it. I'm picking the game up tomorrow, and I'll see this stuff with my own eyes before I'm willing to discuss it.
3. Apparently, Bottles the mole is selling something in N&B called "The truth of Stop N' Swop" for 6000 notes. I'm not sure if I trust this yet, and I'll go into it more in my next post.
4. This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh282pJ4W6c
^ And by the way, the music playing there is the SNS music.

G'night for now.
(Edited by Smashbrosfreak)

Smashbrosfreak
Contender

Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted November 14th, 2008 01:40 AM IP

Two more secret level mysteries for now, and then I'll include any info I missed tomorrow.

#1: Mount Fire Eyes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI21...feature=related

This is a confirmed beta level, and therefore it has had more than its share of theories. The most widely believed one is that became the volcanic half of HailFire Peaks in BT.

#2: Hammerhead Beach/Blubber's Island

Hammerhead Beach is another definite beta level, and it's assumed that this was just the beta name for TTC. Blubber's Island is a small island that shows up at the end of the game, and it can be reached through hacks. Most popular theory is that this island was a part of TTC, but it was canned.

Interesting Hammerhead Beach video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnAL...feature=related
(This person can't spell)

Blubber's Island: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDhXkztw714

Oh, and finally, a quick correction about Capt. Blackeye: There WAS spectulation that he starred in Project Dream. The game actually stared a boy named Edison, and Edison's archrival was a gang of pirates led by Blackeye.

I won't get into Project Dream that much, but if you want to know more, here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcsd...feature=related

More tomorrow.

Smashbrosfreak
Contender

Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted November 14th, 2008 06:31 PM IP

I have a few more pieces of info to post before I start getting into the wackjob theories, so here it goes.

SNS cameos

2003: Grabbed by the Ghoulies (Xbox)

http://www.rarewitchproject.com/?id=1159

I personally don't know anything about this game. I hear it's good, but this is about SNS. So, I'll cut to the chase: In one room, there's a marker board on a wall with some drawings on it. One drawing shows this:

[egg] + [egg] + [egg] + [egg] + [key] = ?

And another part of the board says this:

"Homework Assignment:

1. Collect Secret Eggs
2. Collect Ice Key
3. Activate Secret Level"

Subdrag had this to say:

And also 3 maps, that are a little hard to make out. Also, what's odd is that there are four eggs below this and an ice key pictured, only no question marks, with instead circles on them; Why four? I can't think of any reason to include four and not six, or even three to correspond to Banjo Tooie. Anyways, we'll get a pic up for you within a few days or so, because it's quite cool and for furthur analysis; kudos to Rare for this, if only they'd ever actually come out and say we released their cheats or even accept that there were cheats for Banjo Kazooie and they've been released. Or anything at all.

There's been no evidence to correspond with this, other than the proof that Rare has a sense of humor. A pic of the board can be seen in the link above.

2005: Banjo Pilot (GBA)

This is a Banjo game centered entirely on racing. Actually, in 2003 there was a GBA Banjo-Kazooie game, but it made no reference whatsoever to SNS. This game, however, is different.

<--! rediculously short and uninformative backstory: "Cheato" is Gruntilda's spellbook that makes appearances in BK and BT.

So, in Banjo Pilot, Cheato sells you something called "STOPNSWOP" for 999 cheato pages. When purchased, Cheato says: "So you wanna know about Stop n' Swop, eh... ok, hope you're ready. Here goes: Why don't you stop playing this game, and swop it for a nice book or something?"

Devil Bottles/Bottles Revenge

http://www.rarewitchproject.com/?id=1194

This is a feature that supposedly existed in BT before, once again, Rare removed it. See, in game 2, Bottles dies (omg, spoiler, but no, really, it happens at the beginning of the game) and he appears around the game as an angel. In Bottles Revenge mode, he turns evil, and can be controlled by player two to possess enemies.

So, in September of 2004, the feature was hacked out and released as a gameshark code by none other than Subdrag and Ice Mario. As of today, there is no known legitimate way to access this feature legitimately, but it was still within the code of the game itself. The article above goes into much greater detail about this.

So, here I think I've covered the important stuff. For other theories, go here:

http://www.rarewitchproject.com/for...ead.php?t=15446
http://www.rarewitchproject.com/for...ead.php?t=18796

Oh, and if anybody asks, Mad Monster Mansion in BK doesn't hold significant importance just because it has 2 SNS eggs and a picture of Captain Blackeye. Just thought I'd get that out of the way. :P

So, currently, I have Nuts and Bolts, but I haven't played it yet because I'm working on my run-through of the old BK. I've finished 5 out of 9 worlds in 4 1/2 hours of gameplay, which isn't bad for someone who hasn't played through the story of the game in a long time.

I also didn't play the Demo for N&B, which was out for a while... but there's some stuff in it I'll mention in a bit.

Smashbrosfreak
Contender

Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted November 14th, 2008 09:07 PM IP

So I watched a Youtube video before the release of N&B that showed... the pink SNS egg is in the demo! ...But the person wasn't sure what to do with it.

Anyway, in a comment on that video, somebody made a post about "The truth of Stop 'N Swop" item that Bottles is selling for 6000 notes. (So I've heard, there is no way that someone can earn that many notes in the demo.) But then, they went on to post a rumor. Upon the item's purchase, Bottles says, "...

THIS IS A RUMOR

"Well, I COULD tell you, but then I'd have to kill you, and we can't show something like that in a game with this rating. Thanks for the notes!"

If he ACTUALLY says that, I don't know whether I'm going to laugh hysterically or shrug and say, "Well, saw that coming."

Really, if Rare has given us this long to figure things out, then it's clear they're having fun with this, and they won't let it go that easily. The Banjo-Pilot SNS reference is the other reason I don't trust this, and as I mentioned, no matter what happens, my belief is that the next piece of this puzzle is only going to create more questions.

Well, I'll return to this topic once I've played N&B tonight. Time will tell what happens.

Sheik Her ROYal Highness Posts: 1399 Registered: Jan 2004	Posted November 16th, 2008 07:47 AM IP Considering this is about a game series I have never played and possibly never will - I'm totally enthralled by this and your dedication to it! XD Sacred Powers, Cast Your Purifying Light Upon These Corrupt Souls. Rest In Peace Sinners! JUDGMENT!

Smashbrosfreak
Contender

Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted November 18th, 2008 04:02 PM IP

Dunno whether to be flattered or insulted by that.

Anyway, N&B is pretty. Great graphics. Graphics do not make the game, but this is pretty good so far. The "vehicle" part of the gameplay is different, to say the least, and I have yet to get used to it. The overworld is incredibly expansive, and I can't see myself getting everything in this game for a while. Haven't yet tried multiplayer. Also, in this game, Rare is really flexing their sense of humor. There have been a number of jokes that require a good amount of knowledge about BK games or other Rare games to understand (five minutes into the game, and there's already a reference to Grabbed by the Ghoulies). Fun game, I recommend it, so on and so forth.

Any SNS references yet? Well, aside from the "SNS truth" item and a "Stop N' Swop" achievement ("Drop off a Stop N' Swop crate at Mumbo's Motors"), there has been one. There's a gym in the overworld that has a roof covered in snow, and someone has conveniently drawn a key in it. Ha ha ha ha...

Anyway, I'll report back with new info at some point.

Waluigi911 Member Posts: 1642 Registered: Jan 2004	Posted November 20th, 2008 03:08 AM IP This ain't related, but... meh For it is not enough to have a good mind: one must use it well. -Ren� Descartes

Smashbrosfreak
Contender

Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted November 21st, 2008 12:50 PM IP

Lol, there's actually a new VG cats comic.

World 3 in this game is where I found the pink SNS egg that was apparently in the demo. Here's what I find odd, though: Close by, in what is almost the same part of the world, I found... another one. Not sure what to do with these, but noticing that there are two (so far) of the exact same egg has given me the impression that they might be useless. World three is called "Banjoland," and it's a world dedicated to the BK games full of props from those games. These eggs may not be in plain sight in the level, but just the fact that there's more than one gives me the impression that these might be props as well... a joke, if you will. Of course, I don't know what to do with them, and I definitely don't have a vehicle that can fly those things off of their perches, so what do I know.

Smashbrosfreak
Contender

Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted November 24th, 2008 09:32 PM IP

Latest SNS references:

I walked on the roof with a drawing of a key. Nothing important, possibly a joke, but it's too early to tell.

In a boat shack on one end of a pond, there is a drawing of a pink egg on the wall. The dot on the question mark is a skull. Hmm...

Not only that, but yesterday I found, at the top of some tower, a blue egg drawn on the floor. So, the overworld has a pink egg, a blue egg, and an ice key drawing. In other words, the original SNS items. I'm keeping my eye on these spots...

In Banjoland so far, I've found a total of four fake pink SNS eggs. They can be opened when whacked, and a little robotic critter comes out. It then tries to attach itself to your vehicle (and appears to be damaging it). I've experimented with these things; I've taken them to different parts of the level and tried putting them together, but all they want to do is attempt to stick to my vehicle. Also in Banjoland, there's a wall of ice near the bottom of the world with a snowman face in it. In a part of the ice wall to the side, there are three things frozen in the ice: Another pink SNS egg (other than the four previously mentioned,) an ice key, and a CD that has "Stop 'N Swop" written on it. I'm now expecting to find a sixth "fake" egg in the world somewhere to correspond to the number of eggs in SNS, but no such luck. Oh, and an infamous picture of Banjo and Kazooie holding the pink egg and ice key appears on the wall somewhere in this world. http://www.geocities.com/boltdragoon/secret.jpg

Finally:

"I bet you used some kind of cheat code. Yeah, that's it! You stopped the game and swapped something, didn't you?" - Trophy Thomas character, after beating one of his challenges with an outstanding time

SNS is getting way more publicity in this game than I thought.

Two days until BK on Xbox marketplace.

Smashbrosfreak
Contender

Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted November 26th, 2008 04:20 PM IP

So, BK on 360.

Like I said about N&B, this is a pretty game. Only once stuff like this happens to games do you actually notice the quality of N64 graphics. The 360 version is a beautiful remake; everything runs smoothly and no blurs or anything of the like. Rare really applied themselves here.

There are a bunch of minor changes and a couple of big ones. Not that anyone cares, but I'll go into detail. First off, it appears that music notes can be collected at your leisure, instead of the "music score" rule in the original BK where you had to get all the notes, or as many as possible, in one swoop. I guess this makes things more convenient, but I don't know... kinda moves the "skill" bar down a notch... Also, Bottles has on one occasion informed me that I earned a gamerpic. Lol, don't think that happened in old BK.

On to SNS. While N&B is having a good time trying to piss us off with repeated and unusual references, this new BK is going straight to the point. The first thing I noticed was that the Stop 'N' Swop screen (see my avatar) is already in the game progress menu on the pause screen, exactly where it used to be. (In original BK, this screen didn't appear until you had gotten one SNS item.) All six eggs and the key appear, however faded in the traditional video game appearance of "You don't have this item yet."

I've played through the first two worlds, so secondly in TTC, one of the first things I noticed is that Sharkfood Island, the holder of the pink SNS egg, has already been raised, and you can walk right in with no trouble. Great and all, but this does a blow to the question, "How was SNS supposed to work?" We may still know yet the answer to that... unfortunately, the question "how were the SNS items intended to be collected" has been shot in the *** and thrown back onto the pile of questions that may never be answered. Here it goes...

Oh, and Nov. 26 was an inaccurate date on my part. It turns out that I could've used my free code at any time to download this game, so long as there was BK content of any kind on marketplace. I downloaded the game today anyway, but I don't mind the delay - it gave me the chance to play N64 BK and N&B.

I'll be out of town for two days starting on Thanksgiving, so I'll be playing the crap out of this after work tonight.
(Edited by Smashbrosfreak)

Smashbrosfreak
Contender

Posts: 757
Registered: Jan 2004

Posted November 29th, 2008 02:40 PM IP

"Ooh... an enormous egg! This is one of the seven Stop 'N' Swop items. It will probably unlock something in my new adventure, Nuts and Bolts. Can't wait..." - Banjo, after obtaining the first SNS egg in 360 version of BK

"Oooh... an egg! I'm sure we'll find a use for this somewhere..." - Banjo, after obtaining the first SNS egg in N64 version of BK

Uh oh.

"Look, another one of those special Stop 'N' Swop eggs! I hope this isn't a cruel joke and we'll actually be able to use them this time..." - Banjo, after obtaining the second SNS egg in 360 version

"Wow... another one of those special eggs!" - Banjo, after obtaining the second SNS egg in N64 version

So what's this? Rare actually making a reference to the fact that we got the stuff in the first game? I believe it's happened before, but still, not something you see everyday.
(Edited by Smashbrosfreak)

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