| |
Welcome... |
|
 |
| |
Intoxicants: Alcohol and drugs |
|
Author |
Message |
 |
mystic light
Administrator
Posts: 6815
Registered: May 2006 |
|
 Posted March 29th, 2008 13:51 IP   
Hi, all,
I have seen a few people with mental problems in my life.
It was interesting that most of them had a substance abuse prior to becoming 'mad'.
Of course we can now argue that it is coincidence, but ....this is interesting:
Dharma talk by Venerable Ledi Sayādaw:
In the Book of the Eights of the Gradual Sayings, the Buddha teaches:
“Monks, drinking intoxicants, if done frequently or habitually, leads to rebirth in hell, rebirth as an animal or as a hungry ghost. At the very least, the result of this evil deed when born as a human being is that one becomes a mad person.”
Taking intoxicants, being unwholesome kamma, has two evil consequences: unfortunate rebirth in the future, and bad consequences in the present life. This means suffering in hell and long term bad effects in the present life. So the effect of taking intoxicants or drugs is quite serious as it leads to the four states of misery: hell, animals, ghosts, and demons.
The present evil effect, among others, is at least becoming mad. Among the consequences of insanity are neurosis, paranoia, schizophrenia, psychosis, etc. So the present results are also serious, just like future evil rebirths.
Why do intoxicants cause rebirth in hell in future lives? The reason is that drinking alcohol and taking drugs promotes fresh evil kamma. Evil kamma leads to hell. Moreover, by these evil deeds, the door of opportunity is open for past evil kammas to give appropriate effects. Thus one suffers in hell. Please note that everyone has done evil deeds in their previous existences so, at present, good deeds should be done.
New Evil Kamma
Taking intoxicants and non-medicinal drugs means making fresh evil kamma because it promotes greed, hatred, and delusion. It also supports wrong views, which urge one to do new evil kammas. It sustains and develops the five hindrances such as lust, anger, dullness, restlessness, and doubt. Intoxicants damage genes and chromosomes. They also burn the mind and consciousness. So taking intoxicants affects the mental realm, which has profound significance. Evil bodily and vocal acts follow as a result of drunkenness. Killing, lying, abusing, etc., are the usual results of taking alcohol.
Drunkards always do bodily, vocal, and mental misdeeds, which are the ten evil kammas. So taking alcohol increases daily the burden of future suffering in hell, and the burden of evil and guilt. There is little doubt that a drunkard will be reborn in one of the lower realms when he dies, since he accumulates evil kamma every day. He is demented in the present life. For countless lives he does other serious unwholesome kamma. So with counteractive kamma of this type, when he dies, he suffers in the lower realms. His burden of evil kamma is heavy. His misbehaviour is serious. So fresh evil deeds appear.
Past Evil Deeds
In past lives one has already done many kinds of evils while wandering in the rounds of existence, as one seldom hears the true Dhamma. These precious chances are very rare. Meeting Noble Ones is very rare, possible only once in a thousand or ten thousand existences. In past lives one did various evils and misdeeds in thought, speech, and deed. Lives of crime, guilt, and evil lead to the realms of suffering. The likelihood of this result is increased by drinking alcohol. The breaking of this moral precept means supporting other past evil deeds that one has already done. Past evil deeds resemble robbers and murderers who stay near a village to commit crimes. Transgression of this precept gives impetus to evil deeds: past, present, or future. So the evil kamma of taking alcohol resembles receivers of stolen goods who live in the village. Robbers get their chance due to the receivers of stolen goods. Villages are destroyed by them.
Likewise, as long as the evil of taking intoxicants remains, there will be chances for the previous evil deeds to mature. People have to take rebirth in various hells when past misdeeds mature. Everyone has also done some good deeds in their past lives, but these good deeds have no chance to mature due to the present evil kamma. If one dies without abandoning this evil, one will not escape from the results of the past evil kamma. Certainly one will suffer in hell. In this sense, drinking alcohol certainly brings about hell in the next life. Because serious past evil kamma take their chance, one reaches Roruva hell.
More here:
http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Ledi/I...ntoxicants.html
|
  
 |
http://schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/ |
|
 |
|
Abraxas
Guest
Posts:
Registered: |
|
Posted March 30th, 2008 09:36 IP
I stopped all intoxicants years ago. I didn't think it would have the impact Buddha describes here but I just got tired of being in a fog.
But to know this is a great help.
We can all see how families break apart where a parent is drinking or abusing substances.
I have yet to meet a person who can maintain a stable and happy relationship when they drink or just smoke dope.
One of these days they end up alone in their old days.
Just don't expect anything back, ever, of an addict. Unless they stop .
The drug is like a demon that controls them, (some even see them) just like a virus controls your nose and wellbeing when you have a cold.
It's a disease and like a disease should heal.
Everybody would try to get rid of a cold.
But some plants, I think, are possessed by 'demons', who use them as a trap.
It's maybe a bizarre thought, and it just occurred to me.
But we have plants with healing properties, poisonous plants, and intoxicating plants.
Wow. I gotta think about this some more.
Thanks for sharing, ML!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
bigyouth
Global Moderator
Posts: 906
Registered: Jun 2006 |
|
Posted March 31st, 2008 10:10 IP
Is this the 'Fundamentalist Christian Forum' or does every religion pick on weed smokers.[They are a slow moving target and thus easy to hit.]
Really drink a beer and you come back as a dog? Seems a little silly.
People have taken intoxicants since the beginning of time and indeed some people have problems with the practice but this Dharma talk has the makings of a Baptist preacher railing against demon rum.
This Ledi fellow ever heard of moderation?
|
|
|
"love and you will be open
seek and you will find
wisdom is found in the simplist of places
in the nick of time" |
|
|
|
mystic light
Administrator
Posts: 6815
Registered: May 2006 |
|
Posted March 31st, 2008 11:15 IP
It's a free philosophy forum, as you know, ((Jake)) 
So we can discuss all religions and philosophies and investigate how they differ or where they say the same.
Did you read the link as well? The excerpt sounds a bit more absolute than the whole dharma talk read in context.
Buddha said: "drinking intoxicants, if done frequently or habitually",.
So I don't think that somebody who occasionally drinks one beer is coming back as a dog.
But if he drinks 10 or 20 beers and that every day, neglects family and friends, becomes harsh and violent, he is likely to end up in an unfortunate rebirth.
But please also keep in mind that Buddha is probably amongst the least dogmatic spiritual leaders in the world that we know of.
He said:
"Test my teachings, don't accept them blindly. If they work for you, fine, If not, feel free to follow another path. "
Anymore freedom you can't ask for.
It is also possible for Buddhists to follow not all of the 5 precepts.
Intoxication is the 5 th precept.
People are free to follow the precepts to the extent they feel comfortable with.
|
|
|
http://schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/ |
|
|
|
Abraxas
Guest
Posts:
Registered: |
|
Posted March 31st, 2008 11:21 IP
I think it's important to read from the start, so for those who don't click on links: here it is:
"Intoxication is a serious social evil. The fifth Buddhist precept enjoins us to “abstain from intoxicants, which cause heedlessness.” Heedlessness (pamāda) is a euphemism for intoxication and sensual indulgence. The Buddha said that while he was a young man he gave up all intoxication: “On seeing an old man, all intoxication with youth vanished from me. On seeing a sick man, all intoxication with health vanished from me. On seeing a dead man, all intoxication with life vanished from me.” Even without intoxicants, most people are intoxicated with sensual pleasures, youth, health, or life, and it is hard for them to realise how they are trapped by death.
In the Noble One’s discipline, dancing is likened to madness, singing to lamentation, and laughter to childishness. The excitement prevalent at many sports events is also a kind of intoxication. Would anyone chase a ball around or watch others do it, if not intoxicated in some way? Most sports do not involve evil kamma, but would it not be wiser to redirect those efforts to charity work?
Evil kamma is made whenever one supports and encourages the evil deeds of others. Fox-hunting, fishing, horse-racing, boxing, etc., all encourage violence of one kind or another. Football, rugby, ice-hockey, and other contact sports also involve incidental violence and injury, but that is not their aim, so one will not make evil kamma unless one approves of violent tactics contrary to the spirit of fair play. Racing with vehicles does not intentionally inflict suffering on animals, but it does involve a kind of madness that is remote from nibbāna.
Gambling is motivated by greed and discontent, which means unwholesome kamma. Whatever one can earn by honest labour should be used to provide for one’s family or to practise charity. By living within one’s means, one will keep out of debt.
The Evils of Intoxicants
To dwell on the evil consequences of intoxicants is barely necessary, for they are well known.
How much better would society be if we campaigned against alcohol consumption as much as we do against smoking?
Instead of talking about legalising the use of marijuana, we should be teaching the next generation that alcohol consumption is socially unacceptable. How many riots, assaults, and accidents have been fuelled by alcohol? What would the cost savings be to the NHS if we could reduce alcohol consumption by half? How many hours of police time are wasted on incidents involving football louts, midnight revelers, and drunken drivers? What is the financial and social cost of drug abuse? How many working hours are lost due to hangovers?
True Buddhists are Teetotalers, who abhor violence, noise, and passion. They would applaud the spirit expressed in the Desiderata:
“Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.”
“Avoid loud and aggressive people,
they are vexations to the spirit.”
Buddhists are peace-loving and non-violent. As the Sayādaw points out, one makes bad kamma in four ways:
doing it oneself, urging others to do it, approving of it, or speaking in praise of it.
Cruel sports such as fox-hunting, bull-fighting, and game-shooting are totally unacceptable to Buddhists. They should all be made illegal, since they involve gross and needless cruelty to animals.
Horse-racing is less cruel, but it should be more strictly regulated to reduce injury and cruelty. Whips could be banned, and the height of fences could be reduced, to reduce the danger to the horses. Wild horses run flat-out only to avoid death from predators.
Sports such as boxing and professional wrestling condone violence. Most Buddhists would regard such sports as coarse and uncivilised. Sumo wrestling, Kendo, T'ai Chi Chuan, and Judo are more civilised combat sports that originated in Buddhist countries. Martial arts for self-defence can teach youngsters how to curb and channel their aggression, without encouraging violence.
The portrayal of violence in films or on TV means unwholesome kamma for those involved in producing it, and for those who enjoy watching it. The portrayal of immorality, sex, and violence can undoubtedly be a bad influence, and we humans are much more impressionable than we will ever admit. If we were not, advertisers would soon go out of business.
A Famous Experiment
A famous experiment in a university was conducted on students of psychology — intelligent young adults whom one might expect would not be too impressionable.
All the students except the ‘guinea pigs’ being tested by the experiment were secretly told to speak the truth at first, but later to lie, when asked which of a series of lines drawn on a card shown by the tester was longest. The camera recording the experiment showed that the ‘guinea pigs’ at first answered truthfully, but became increasingly embarrassed when their answers conflicted with the rest of the group, and later lied to avoid being the ‘odd-man-out.’ This clearly proves that intelligent people can easily be coerced into doing what is immoral, stupid, or wrong, simply by exerting a little peer pressure. Commercial pressures, subversive literature, political ‘spin’, and media ‘hype’ have conspired to undermine spiritual values in the modern world.
I would say that to reverse this trend is now impossible, not only in the west, but also in Buddhist countries. The only remedy is to question traditional practices, and to pursue a resolute solitary course, guided by Buddhist principles, and enlightened meditation teachers.
Wise people should protect their spiritual well-being. They should make a careful study of the Buddha’s teachings and, having understood the true Dhamma, they should practise insight meditation intensively. Constant, uninterrupted mindfulness is the only way to escape from preconceived notions formed by innate delusion, and reinforced by cultural conditioning. The Buddha himself had to reinterpret and overturn the traditional beliefs of his time, which were hardened by centuries of tradition.
Human nature has not changed since the Buddha’s time. Traditionalists still emphasise customs that have little to do with the way to nibbāna, and neglect to practise insight meditation. That is why we can still find the ugly face of casteism and racial prejudice in Buddhist countries. In spite of the Buddha’s compassionate teaching, human rights abuses, corruption, and nepotism are widespread in Asia. America and the United Kingdom are popular destinations for migrants, in spite of social problems, because of their good record on human rights, open democracy, and social and religious freedoms.
We can expel intoxication, transcend superstition, overcome doubt, and enter the way to liberation, only if we cultivate knowledge and wisdom."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Aalar
Guest
Posts:
Registered: |
|
Posted March 31st, 2008 15:37 IP
Quote:
bigyouth wrote:
Is this the 'Fundamentalist Christian Forum' or does every religion pick on weed smokers.[They are a slow moving target and thus easy to hit.]
Really drink a beer and you come back as a dog? Seems a little silly.
People have taken intoxicants since the beginning of time and indeed some people have problems with the practice but this Dharma talk has the makings of a Baptist preacher railing against demon rum.
This Ledi fellow ever heard of moderation?
|
Jake, here is an article a friend recently wrote. I hope it addresses some of the concerns you have. As always, I don't expect anyone to take anything I post at face value, but to see for themselves what is true.
Intoxicants and Cultivation: Smoking
By: Lin Ai Wei
Out of the Five Precepts, there is one specific about intoxicants. It has been comprehended to mean only alcohol, but it actually refers to anything that alters the mind.
Specifically speaking, one common mind altering drug is the cigarette. In our modern world, the cigarette has been advertised as the additive to a casual time spent alone or with friends.
This mindset has led out world society to attach to advertised views of casual get-togethers with friends, family and even personal time with oneself. The outcomes of such views are manifest within the behavior and lifestyle of those who smoke cigarettes. All people are good people; it is their views of things which cause unwholesome results. The education of living beings is what causes their “ups and downs” in life.
This is why we have the Five precepts; To look deeper at the mind, and contemplate the causes and conditions which arise from our personal views. Looking deeper in to the precept of ‘No taking of Intoxicants’ we arrive at a shore filled with myriad views which behold within them poisons which alter the mind, muddle the mind.
A cigarette, as we all know, contains over 4,000 additives, all poisonous to living beings. There is nothing good that can come from smoking. The cigarette is the “Anti-Man”; That which is against humanity. It infests the body with poisons which degenerate the body over a long period of time. This slow degeneration alters the clarity of the mind instantly, and opens the doors of confusion, allowing a tidal wave of false views.
As a cultivator of Buddhist Education, one must, at all times, keep the body and mind from confusion. Confusion here refers to ordinary mental confusion, anger, and greed, ignorance; as well as sicknesses diseases, cancers and unpleasant situations/experiences.
When one begins to smoke, whether they are aware of it or not; their energy becomes clouded and unstable. The smoke itself is filled with poisons which when enter the lungs, disrupt the blood and energy, deteriorate the lungs, heart, stomach, spleen, liver, gall bladder, kidneys, adrenals, urinary tract, large and small intestines, bones and marrow, the brain and the nervous system, for men; gonads, for woman; ovaries and uterus.
Every function of the body becomes altered by the cigarette, which in turn alters the mind. When the body is sick, it is difficult to cultivate without hindrances. Pain in the lungs diverts concentration to the lungs, and views of pain result. The same goes for the rest of the body when dis-eased. This outcome is not beneficial to one’s cultivation.
The mind is quickly influenced by the poisons absorbed by the body from the cigarette. Dizziness may result; a feeling of a magnetic heaviness expanding throughout the body will arise, as well as fatigue and loss of breath.
How does this affect the mind? Because of the poisons in the cigarette, the mind of the person becomes confused. It can not decide what is right or wrong, for the person chooses to take another inhale from the cigarette. If the person was clear before, and smokes, they sacrifice clarity after the first inhalation. There is no excuse for smoking.
Cultivation wise, if the mind is not clear, one can not concentrate sincerely. If one can not concentrate, their cultivation has been done in vain. With the mind muddled by views of addiction, one can not detach from views, or will find difficulty in doing so, and as a result, will not attain the Patience of Non-Production.
The poisons of cigarettes cause the mind to become fatigued, unclear, easily frustrated, arrogant, selfish, easily angered and violent. They also cause the mind to become submissive to the intoxicant, and inner dialogue as to whether one should quit or not arises, which causes more reasoning, and confusion.
This result therefore is not conducive to a wholesome lifestyle. Many, though, would argue that their lives are fine with smoking. They claim to not get sick, be patient, and have better control of their temper. Yet, once they stop smoking, they turn into demons, snapping at anyone who shares criticism, or even finding themselves frustrated at the smallest of misunderstandings.
They claim that smoking helps them cope, but actually, the smoking causes their dependency to become stronger and stronger. Anything “outside” tool used to alter the mind in non-constructive and benevolent outcomes, is not a proper tool, and will only result in suffering, and death.
Some also will argue that their family members lived to old ages while smoking and others have as well. This does not mean cigarettes are healthy for you. People are very ignorant to think that they understand all causes and outcomes, without realizing and actually understanding the law of cause and effect. They believe they are immune to bad results, and that karma is only bad and good karma is ordinary enjoyments.
There are causes and conditions for the way people live their life, the experiences they have and the people they meet. These things must be considered as well when looking for excuses to pursue what one wants to have in their life.
Smoking causes the body to heat up, thus agitating the mind. When the body is imbalanced, it is difficult to function at one’s full cultivation potential. The body must be pure, as well as the mind. When there is addiction to cigarettes, the mind can not be at ease, thus making it difficult to attain stillness in meditation.
One may experience states of stillness, but the greed of the addiction will cause movement in the mind and the state of stillness is lost. Specifically pointing to spiritual cultivation, smoking will not enhance one’s progress, but only slow them down, making it very difficult to attain any true results.
Abilities attained with addictions present in the mind are not the mark of true wisdom. The mark of true wisdom is without marks, for an addiction is the mark of views, not wisdom. One may have some wisdom while with addiction, but it isn’t complete. For wisdom to be complete, addictions must be put down permanently
Addictions are a view of self, which is the manifestation of greed. When there is greed, the view of separation manifests, vice verse. This view of needing to fulfill holds one back from attaining stillness of mind, and results in distorted thinking.
When the mind can be moved, it is mind. When the mind is still, there is no mind, no duality. The state of non moving such-ness can only be attained by the dropping of views, the putting down of addictive behavior and purity of body and mind.
To go further on the effects smoking has upon one’s spiritual cultivation would take too many years to explain in full detail. It is thus that the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas of the Ten Directions did not indulge in intoxicants. With this in mind, it is best to follow their example and keep close their Dharma.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Abraxas
Guest
Posts:
Registered: |
|
Posted March 31st, 2008 16:54 IP
Makes sense. I wonder how I would have reacted to such information when I was still smoking and drinking.
I always wanted to get rid of smoking, so that wouldn't have been the problem. I was fully aware of the health risks and never in denial mode. It would have been different with alcohol though. I think I would have been defensive back then when I thought a bit of alcohol is fun.
Who knows.
The good thing is, however, that in Buddhism, when you stop "overindulging", or "sinning" if, you will, and totally, genuinely let go of it, you are not only -literally- liberated in this life, but it also affects your next life.
That is good to know.
(Edited by Abraxas)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
bigyouth
Global Moderator
Posts: 906
Registered: Jun 2006 |
|
Posted April 1st, 2008 13:43 IP
My post was to registar humorous shock over the idea drinking and smoking were 'sinful ' activities. When I thought about what ML, Aalar and Abraxas had wrote I was surprised at how the thread was turning out.
All my closest guy friends use tobacco [in one form or another] except me. I'm the one always saying 'quit now and get healthy' but I don't see it as a moral issue rather a poor health choice.
|
|
|
"love and you will be open
seek and you will find
wisdom is found in the simplist of places
in the nick of time" |
|
|
|
mystic light
Administrator
Posts: 6815
Registered: May 2006 |
|
Posted April 1st, 2008 15:32 IP
Quote:
When I thought about what ML, Aalar and Abraxas had wrote I was surprised at how the thread was turning out. |
How...? 
I used to see tobacco also only as a health issue. Likewise alcohol.
I wouldn't have dreamed of the Buddha seeing it like he is. It's still pretty new to me too.
In Islam alcohol is also prohibited....
Amongst my friends and family I am the only one now who doesn't smoke or drink or use drugs.
I'm beginning to lose friends over this too, because people become defensive when it comes to their little drug issues.
It's enough to say:
I don't drink coffee, black tea, alcohol, I don't smoke tobacco weed or crack, I don't sniff speed or cocaine and don't shoot H, don't have one night stands " and they think I'm having no fun at all in my life.
It sometimes seems just being that way makes me a provocation or moral apostle.
Btw, over in sangha,-
Some drink, some don't, some eat meat, some don't.
It's just accepted that we all need to go our own path. Each is the heir of his actions.
|
|
|
http://schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/ |
|
|
|
Aalar
Guest
Posts:
Registered: |
|
Posted April 1st, 2008 17:19 IP
Quote:
bigyouth wrote:
I'm the one always saying 'quit now and get healthy' but I don't see it as a moral issue rather a poor health choice. |
Hey... :P
I see morality and health as very intimately linked. They are almost interchangeable terms, in my mind. With morality, good health follows. With good health, good morals come almost naturally.
Bad health? Bad morals... and conversely.
Quote:
Anna wrote:
I don't drink coffee, black tea, alcohol, I don't smoke tobacco weed or crack, I don't sniff speed or cocaine and don't shoot H, don't have one night stands " and they think I'm having no fun at all in my life. |
Good for you, m'dear! They are throwing their lives away and calling it "fun." There is no reason to follow them, and no reason to give in to the peer pressure. Because you take good care of your body, you will be entrusted with more. Those who don't take good care of their bodies -- even that which they have will be taken from them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
bigyouth
Global Moderator
Posts: 906
Registered: Jun 2006 |
|
Posted April 1st, 2008 18:13 IP
[quote]mystic light wrote:
How...?
ML
The flow of our discussion cast me into the direction of 'say Yes to tobacco; it is really worth the health costs' when I don't allow it in my house and my friends rarely leave home without it. [They understand this and it isn't an issue.]
Rather I'm questioning if in choosing intoxicants you make yourself an undesirable person....I don't believe so.
In talking about a subject near and dear to both sides[[peace]] and [[understanding]].]] As always much love to ML& Aalar and a kindly call out to Abraxas.
Jake
|
|
|
"love and you will be open
seek and you will find
wisdom is found in the simplist of places
in the nick of time" |
|
|
|
Abraxas
Guest
Posts:
Registered: |
|
Posted April 1st, 2008 19:48 IP
Hi, Jake!
pssst.....not so loud, ....my darn hangover ....
:witzisch:
Only kidding
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mystic light
Administrator
Posts: 6815
Registered: May 2006 |
|
Posted April 1st, 2008 20:16 IP
Quote:
Aalar wrote:
Hey... :P
|
Quote:
I see morality and health as very intimately linked. They are almost interchangeable terms, in my mind. With morality, good health follows. With good health, good morals come almost naturally.
Bad health? Bad morals... and conversely. |
Funny.... I never thought of it this way, but it sounds true, somehow.
Quote:
Good for you, m'dear! They are throwing their lives away and calling it "fun." There is no reason to follow them, and no reason to give in to the peer pressure. Because you take good care of your body, you will be entrusted with more. Those who don't take good care of their bodies -- even that which they have will be taken from them. |
|
|
|
http://schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/ |
|
|
|
mystic light
Administrator
Posts: 6815
Registered: May 2006 |
|
Posted April 1st, 2008 20:22 IP
Quote:
Rather I'm questioning if in choosing intoxicants you make yourself an undesirable person....I don't believe so. |
I dunno. If the word Buddha or Lao Tze comes over my lips I feel resistance, even hostility.
Spiritually, if I didn't have the internet I would have nobody to talk to about spirituality lately. It used to be different.
And they don't want to hear it.
I'm comprehendig this only slowly. :(
|
|
|
http://schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/ |
|
|
|
Persephone
Member
Posts: 244
Registered: Jul 2006 |
|
Posted April 2nd, 2008 00:05 IP
ML,
Many mentally ill people use drugs and alcohol as a way of self-medicating.
The drugs and alcohol confuse the issues in diagnosing illnesses, whether alcoholism or schizophrenia.
First things first, however. One must stop the alcohol and drug use to make the symptomology clearer. It is a problem for families as well as for the professionals. I had a friend, many years ago, whose son was diagnosed as an alcoholic, and sent to rehab. He did his part, he went to AA and did everything he was told to do. His behavior continued to spin out of control, yet without the alcohol, it became clearer that he was a schizophrenic. He suicided as an inpatient. Judging doesn't help in these cases. Compassion and clarity of purpose are important.
|
|
|
A good example is the tallest kind of preaching.
African proverb |
|
|
|
bigyouth
Global Moderator
Posts: 906
Registered: Jun 2006 |
|
Posted April 2nd, 2008 01:00 IP
Quote:
mystic light wrote:
I dunno. If the word Buddha or Lao Tze comes over my lips I feel resistance, even hostility.
Spiritually, if I didn't have the internet I would have nobody to talk to about spirituality lately. It used to be different.
And they don't want to hear it.
I'm comprehendig this only slowly. :(
|
Your friends and family seem hostile to the 'word Buddha or Lao Tze' and they don't want to hear that you can be happy without drugs or booze? That is their problem.
How do you feel when they discuss their favorite drink?
|
|
|
"love and you will be open
seek and you will find
wisdom is found in the simplist of places
in the nick of time" |
|
|
|
Aalar
Guest
Posts:
Registered: |
|
Posted April 2nd, 2008 03:42 IP
Quote:
bigyouth wrote:
In talking about a subject near and dear to both sides[[peace]] and [[understanding]].]] As always much love to ML& Aalar and a kindly call out to Abraxas.
Jake
|
Right backatcha, young man.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Aalar
Guest
Posts:
Registered: |
|
Posted April 2nd, 2008 03:53 IP
Quote:
mystic light wrote:
Quote:
Aalar wrote:
I see morality and health as very intimately linked. They are almost interchangeable terms, in my mind. With morality, good health follows. With good health, good morals come almost naturally.
Bad health? Bad morals... and conversely. |
Funny.... I never thought of it this way, but it sounds true, somehow. |
An advanced cultivator can tell someone's moral disposition (among other things) just by observing how that person moves, walks, talks, and sits. But even movement isn't necessary to observe, for a person's moral disposition (again, among other things) is written all over the face.
There are probably other ways that cultivators can size up a person at a glance, but those are the only ones I know of right now (besides their using psychic powers).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mystic light
Administrator
Posts: 6815
Registered: May 2006 |
|
Posted April 2nd, 2008 06:44 IP
Quote:
Persephone wrote:
ML,
Many mentally ill people use drugs and alcohol as a way of self-medicating.
The drugs and alcohol confuse the issues in diagnosing illnesses, whether alcoholism or schizophrenia.
First things first, however. One must stop the alcohol and drug use to make the symptomology clearer. It is a problem for families as well as for the professionals. I had a friend, many years ago, whose son was diagnosed as an alcoholic, and sent to rehab. He did his part, he went to AA and did everything he was told to do. His behavior continued to spin out of control, yet without the alcohol, it became clearer that he was a schizophrenic. He suicided as an inpatient. Judging doesn't help in these cases. Compassion and clarity of purpose are important.
|
Janice, I sent you a PM a while ago, did you get it?
As to self-medication, yes, I know they do...
I had a friend who suffered from anxiety and panic attacks and she drank to overcome her fear, until she was sent to a rehab clinic and recovered. She is now under a medication that allows her to live a normal life, but without medication she can't do....A lifelong problem.
I have a another friend since 15 years, and a few years ago she meet another girl who drinks a lot and the two together just lose it. Around me she hardly ever had all too much. Now I think she may already be an alcoholic...she doesn't want any help. That's very frustrating for me to watch and other friends have advised me to distance myself from her...
Bad company seems to be really dangerous. Buddha also said something about good and bad company.
Good company
|
|
|
http://schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/ |
|
|
|
mystic light
Administrator
Posts: 6815
Registered: May 2006 |
|
Posted April 2nd, 2008 07:22 IP
Quote:
Aalar wrote:
Quote:
Mystic light wrote:Funny.... I never thought of it this way, but it sounds true, somehow. |
An advanced cultivator can tell someone's moral disposition (among other things) just by observing how that person moves, walks, talks, and sits. But even movement isn't necessary to observe, for a person's moral disposition (again, among other things) is written all over the face.
There are probably other ways that cultivators can size up a person at a glance, but those are the only ones I know of right now (besides their using psychic powers).
|
Absolutely.
Sometimes I wonder if those first quick "judgements" I often make are bias, but I don't think so.
Physiognomy is a very important part of my business.
Janice may also know a lot about this. But anybody could.
Right now I have a patient whose lifestlye and attitudes are clearly mirrored in his face.
|
|
|
http://schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/ |
|
|
|
bigyouth
Global Moderator
Posts: 906
Registered: Jun 2006 |
|
Posted April 2nd, 2008 12:57 IP
Quote:
Aalar wrote:
Right backatcha, young man.
|
You very well may be right about all this....as I relate it all to the people I know; many have been ruined by drugs and booze.
One friend of mine sticks out...he is an airplane pilot and business man...he had ambitions and resources at his disposal... he had a fine romance with a buxsom lass...he had dreams that could of worked but he choose the second bar stool from the wall twenty years ago and has let all of that go. Now when we get together there is a finality in the air where potential once existed...he threw it all away for some cheap talk and american beer. Maybe in some ways I think that too close of an association with that lifestyle and some of that foolishness could rub off on me.
|
|
|
"love and you will be open
seek and you will find
wisdom is found in the simplist of places
in the nick of time" |
|
|
|
mystic light
Administrator
Posts: 6815
Registered: May 2006 |
|
Posted April 2nd, 2008 16:23 IP
Yeah....bad company could rub off.
They say, life is like climbing a mountain, but many stay where they are. Some start climbing, but the higher they climb the more drop out and the lonelier it gets up there.
And you need a good comrade in the mountains, one who doesn't abandon you in danger.
|
|
|
http://schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/ |
|
|
|
Aalar
Guest
Posts:
Registered: |
|
Posted April 2nd, 2008 17:25 IP
Quote:
bigyouth wrote:
One friend of mine sticks out...he is an airplane pilot and business man...he had ambitions and resources at his disposal... he had a fine romance with a buxsom lass...he had dreams that could of worked but he choose the second bar stool from the wall twenty years ago and has let all of that go. Now when we get together there is a finality in the air where potential once existed...he threw it all away for some cheap talk and american beer. Maybe in some ways I think that too close of an association with that lifestyle and some of that foolishness could rub off on me. |
One of life's greatest secrets is that we become what we think about.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mystic light
Administrator
Posts: 6815
Registered: May 2006 |
|
Posted April 2nd, 2008 22:45 IP
Wow.... :lol:
(Edited by mystic light)
|
|
|
http://schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/ |
|
|
|
Persephone
Member
Posts: 244
Registered: Jul 2006 |
|
Posted April 3rd, 2008 00:35 IP
No, ML, I don't have an email from you, but I may not know how to get it here.
|
|
|
A good example is the tallest kind of preaching.
African proverb |
|
|
|
Light Hope
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Registered: Oct 2007 |
|
Posted April 3rd, 2008 04:37 IP
Quote:
I don't drink coffee, black tea, alcohol, I don't smoke tobacco weed or crack, I don't sniff speed or cocaine and don't shoot H, don't have one night stands " and they think I'm having no fun at all in my life. |
Very good. I don't find any of that terribly fun either. I wish your friends could understand though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mystic light
Administrator
Posts: 6815
Registered: May 2006 |
|
Posted April 3rd, 2008 07:03 IP
Quote:
Persephone wrote:
No, ML, I don't have an email from you, but I may not know how to get it here.
|
Janice,
on the left side, right above all the forums, in the grey zone, still under the ads and the Lotus image you can read :
Private Messages. You have 1 unread message.
Click on that and it will take you there.
You need to open this forum with "home", like here:
Mystic Lotus forum
Can you now see it?
|
|
|
http://schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/ |
|
|
|
Persephone
Member
Posts: 244
Registered: Jul 2006 |
|
Posted April 4th, 2008 01:42 IP
Ta Daaaaaaaaaa, yes, I see it now!
Thank you.
|
|
|
A good example is the tallest kind of preaching.
African proverb |
|
|
|
mystic light
Administrator
Posts: 6815
Registered: May 2006 |
|
Posted July 18th, 2008 09:14 IP
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....31.0.nara.html
Buddha spoke:
(3) "What are the six channels for dissipating wealth which he does not pursue?
(a) "indulgence in intoxicants which cause infatuation and heedlessness;
(b) sauntering in streets at unseemly hours;
(c) frequenting theatrical shows;
(d) indulgence in gambling which causes heedlessness;
(e) association with evil companions;
(f) the habit of idleness.
(a) "There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in indulging in intoxicants which cause infatuation and heedlessness:
(i) loss of wealth,
(ii) increase of quarrels,
(iii) susceptibility to disease,
(iv) earning an evil reputation,
(v) shameless exposure of body,
(vi) weakening of intellect.
(b) "There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in sauntering in streets at unseemly hours:
(i) he himself is unprotected and unguarded,
(ii) his wife and children are unprotected and unguarded,
(iii) his property is unprotected and unguarded,
(iv) he is suspected of evil deeds,3
(v) he is subject to false rumours,
(vi) he meets with many troubles.
(c) "There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in frequenting theatrical shows. He is ever thinking:
(i) where is there dancing?
(ii) where is there singing?
(iii) where is there music?
(iv) where is there recitation?
(v) where is there playing with cymbals?
(vi) where is there pot-blowing?4
(d) "There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in indulging in gambling:
(i) the winner begets hate,
(ii) the loser grieves for lost wealth,
(iii) loss of wealth,
(iv) his word is not relied upon in a court of law,
(v) he is despised by his friends and associates,
(vi) he is not sought after for matrimony; for people would say he is a gambler and is not fit to look after a wife.
(e) "There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in associating with evil companions, namely: any gambler, any libertine, any drunkard, any swindler, any cheat, any rowdy is his friend and companion.
(f) "There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in being addicted to idleness:
"He does no work, saying:
(i) that it is extremely cold,
(ii) that it is extremely hot,
(iii) that it is too late in the evening,
(iv) that it is too early in the morning,
(v) that he is extremely hungry,
(vi) that he is too full.
"Living in this way, he leaves many duties undone, new wealth he does not get, and wealth he has acquired dwindles away."
Thus spoke the Exalted One. And when the Master had thus spoken, he spoke yet again:
"One is a bottle friend; one says, 'friend, friend' only to one's face; one is a friend and an associate only when it is advantageous.
"Sleeping till sunrise, adultery, irascibility, malevolence, evil companions, avarice — these six causes ruin a man.
"The man who has evil comrades and friends is given to evil ways, to ruin does he fall in both worlds — here and the next.
"Dice, women, liquor, dancing, singing, sleeping by day, sauntering at unseemly hours, evil companions, avarice — these nine5 causes ruin a man.
"Who plays with dice and drinks intoxicants, goes to women who are dear unto others as their own lives, associates with the mean and not with elders — he declines just as the moon during the waning half.
"Who is drunk, poor, destitute, still thirsty whilst drinking, frequents the bars, sinks in debt as a stone in water, swiftly brings disrepute to his family.
"Who by habit sleeps by day, and keeps late hours, is ever intoxicated, and is licentious, is not fit to lead a household life.
"Who says it is too hot, too cold, too late, and leaves things undone, the opportunities for good go past such men.
"But he who does not regard cold or heat any more than a blade of grass and who does his duties manfully, does not fall away from happiness."
|
|
|
http://schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/ |
|
|
|
bigyouth
Global Moderator
Posts: 906
Registered: Jun 2006 |
|
Posted February 24th, 2011 13:43 IP
Quote:
Aalar wrote:
One of life's greatest secrets is that we become what we think about.
|
Remember this quote as you become aware of just what you think about all day long~!
|
|
|
"love and you will be open
seek and you will find
wisdom is found in the simplist of places
in the nick of time" |
|
|
|
|
Lotus Buddhism Forum :: :: General Buddhist discussion :: Intoxicants: Alcohol and drugs |
|
|
|
|
