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The Tao |
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Persephone
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Posts: 244
Registered: Jul 2006 |
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 Posted March 21st, 2008 01:53 IP   
The Tao is the law of nature, which you can't depart from even for one instant. If you could depart from it, it wouldn't be the Tao. Thus the mature person looks into his own heart and respects what is unseen and unheard. Nothing is more manifest than the hidden; nothin is more obvious than the unseen. Thus the mature person pays attention to what is happening in his inmost self.
TZU-ssu
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A good example is the tallest kind of preaching.
African proverb |
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Izzi
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Posts: 31
Registered: Jun 2007 |
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Posted April 17th, 2008 00:26 IP
Quote:
Persephone wrote:
The Tao is the law of nature, which you can't depart from even for one instant. If you could depart from it, it wouldn't be the Tao. |
true; the Tao is the way. The law of nature.
However, you can depart from it. We see it all the time. People who have let their conditioned mind overpower the innate nature.
Those who have made earthly desires their way of life have in fact deviated from the natural course.
Returning to the Tao is our purpose. To come back to reality. This is true happiness.
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Persephone
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Posted April 17th, 2008 00:49 IP
Well, Tsu-suu said it, I just quoted it.
I'm not sure I agree with your premise. I think people go unconscious all the time, that doesn't necessarily mean they have left their path. It does mean they've left their conscious path. They may need to learn somethings to continue on their way. My Tao is big enough to hold it all.
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A good example is the tallest kind of preaching.
African proverb |
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Abraxas
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Posted April 17th, 2008 06:43 IP
But Lao Tze also speaks of the Tao being lost in some chapters of the TTC....?
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Persephone
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Posted April 18th, 2008 02:20 IP
Yes, he did, Abraxas. I'm simply offering my experience.
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A good example is the tallest kind of preaching.
African proverb |
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Izzi
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Posts: 31
Registered: Jun 2007 |
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Posted April 19th, 2008 02:05 IP
Hey Persephone 
Indeed. That is why we're here. offering our experience.
However i feel it important to point out that it is not exactly "my premise." But several texts support that statement. If you want I can look up specific quotes. I also beleive the school of complete reality taoism share this view.
But i understand what you're saying. I'm saying something similar. It is a broader view.
when you say Quote:
I think people go unconscious all the time, that doesn't necessarily mean they have left their path. It does mean they've left their conscious path. |
see the thing is, returning to to a childlike state is the aim here. Meaning; a child does not share the same preconceptions about things as someone much older. they experience things new for the first time without prejudice. By clearing out that conditioned mind; the 'human' condition, we can truely see reality, as the world really is.
Originally the 'human' condition was the natural way, but somehow along the way that became the artificial instead. Focus is on worldly objects, Desires, and other wants. And the human mind sits in it's own box. Unconscious and oblivious to the world around it.
(Edited by Izzi)
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Persephone
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Posted April 20th, 2008 00:55 IP
Izzi,
I'm not saying that being unconscious of the path is a childlike state. It's not, imo. It's not being conscious. Consciousness helps me stay aware and in this moment. Dissociation, a psychological term, occurs all the time in many of us. The common example is , when driving, have you ever become aware that you've lost time? You are where you were going, but you don't remember the process of driving.
When I speak on automatic, not thinking about what I am saying, I am just using my mouth and voice, but I've gone unconscious. Our big brains go on auto all the time.
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A good example is the tallest kind of preaching.
African proverb |
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mystic light
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Posts: 6815
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Posted April 20th, 2008 07:02 IP
I know the process of "autopilot driving" Janice.
That occurs to me when I feel very relaxed.
I used to drive like that home from university, on Fridays, happy, and suddenly realize that it's time to make the turn to my village, all I would remember was bits of the scenic nature, sunsets with colorful clouds , silence in the head, no monkey chatter.
Just peace. Just driving.
Just spaced out, or space entering into me. A stillstand of time.
Wonderful moments, perhaps resting at the ground of all being, as Chuang Tsu described it, when sitting in the sun with wet hair.
Is that what you meant?
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Persephone
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Posts: 244
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Posted April 21st, 2008 01:53 IP
Not quite ML. Dissociation is'nt about peace, it's about not being present in your body, mind, experience.
Day-dreaming, being in that peaceful, quiet time is very different.
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A good example is the tallest kind of preaching.
African proverb |
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mystic light
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Posted April 21st, 2008 07:01 IP
....then when we are disassociated we are absentminded? Or is that something else too?
(Edited by mystic light)
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riv:::
Global Moderator
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Posted April 21st, 2008 16:10 IP
I've been that way sometimes when I leave my office. I can't remember if I've locked the door or not, cause I wasnt concentrating, so I go back. But when driving my mind is hyperattentive. If not, I'd get into an accident. I love driving though, so much attention needed to the road that I rarely think about anything else.
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Persephone
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Posted April 22nd, 2008 00:39 IP
Dissociation isn't being absent minded, it's being absent from one's body, from one's mind, and from one's experience. As with any psychological process, it's on a continuum, greater at one end, lesser at the other. Sexually abused people are usually highly dissociated at times. Physical abuse is the same. It's a coping skill that allows one to leave the unbearable experience. I've heard it described as looking down from above on one's body, splitting into another part, becoming someone else. Losing time is a big red flag on dissociation. Being able to dissociate is a true gift, if one is being beaten, raped, or tortured. The problem begins after that time, when it becomes a behavior used at other times.
Driving and losing oneself is dangerous, at least here in the US. It's something to become aware of and to work at becoming more conscious during the driving process.
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A good example is the tallest kind of preaching.
African proverb |
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mystic light
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Posted April 22nd, 2008 07:43 IP
I've always been alert to the point when I was driving, like Riv.
That is hard to explain. Germany is much more densely populated than America btw. We have a lot of traffic.
And we drive faster. No speedlimit.
"Spacetrucking" is only possible with empty streets.
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riv:::
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Posted April 23rd, 2008 07:34 IP
:P
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Izzi
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Posted April 24th, 2008 00:17 IP
Speaking of that.
I was on my way home last night around midnight. My mind is thinking, fluttering about, not focused on the road. It's like a bouncy ball that never loses momentum.
Any way, as i was coming down this weird hill and around a curve, I saw a shadow, or a dark figure in the road. I had to double take. When i got close enough to see, i realized it was a person. A guy, maybe in his twenties, with lots of stuff or bags in his hand. As i passed him, he was in the middle of the road with his thumb out. He looked desperate for a ride.
And lots of things ran through my mind; Especially what a selfless act was defined as. It's possible he was crazy, a murderer, a kid drugged up, or a kid in desperate need of a ride, or a combination of those.
What would you have done?
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Persephone
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Posted April 24th, 2008 00:21 IP
I would have wished him well, and continued on my way. I don't pick up unknown people at midnight or any other time.
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A good example is the tallest kind of preaching.
African proverb |
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mystic light
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Posted April 24th, 2008 06:30 IP
Which is highly unrecommendable for a female!
It's asking for trouble. On the other hand, I once drove right into the next police office and reported a lonesome woman walking up and down a fast country road, just in a blouse, in a lonely area, after sunset. I thought that was odd. It turned out she was missing, confused, depressed and suicidal, and the Police thanked me for informing them. It was without their district, but the others picked her up in time.
But with a guy like in your case, Izzi, I wouldn't have known what to do.
He was probably alright. You never know who you let in, and not all people are capable of keeping an evil person at bay.
How do you now feel about it?
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ginger.cookie
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Registered: Apr 2008 |
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Posted April 25th, 2008 05:47 IP
>>>What would you have done?
In the middle of the road at midnight? Yikes! There's a tragedy waiting to happen. I'd have called 9-1-1 to alert whatever law enforcement agency has that jurisdiction and let them handle it.
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riv:::
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Posted April 25th, 2008 12:26 IP
Yeah. I do hope all of you (and especially the women) have cell phones with you at night. That makes it easier to call for assistance. I don't like driving without one.
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mystic light
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Posted April 25th, 2008 14:34 IP
And not everybody has a cell phone.
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riv:::
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Posted April 25th, 2008 15:04 IP
sorry... i live in japan, so... people dont have cars, they dont have jobs, or their own homes... but everyone over the age of 13 has a cell phone... is it very different in germany, or other countries?
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mystic light
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Posted April 25th, 2008 17:38 IP
I don't know, to be honest. I need a car more than a cellphone.
Kids here also have cellphones, there is a real cell phone mania. But they are also crazy about label cloths to brag in school, -too bad we don't have uniforms for them.
I always think: If you really want to see Samsara, then look at a kid craving absolutely unnecessary things.
I was just the same.
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Baekho
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Posted April 25th, 2008 21:47 IP
I've always liked the Japanese school outfits (no, not in "that" way  ) and kind of wish we had them here in the States....
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Be like water, my friend (Bruce Lee). |
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mystic light
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Posted April 26th, 2008 06:50 IP
Quote:
Baekho wrote:
I've always liked the Japanese school outfits (no, not in "that" way ) and kind of wish we had them here in the States....
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Which way is that?
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http://schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/ |
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Izzi
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Registered: Jun 2007 |
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Posted April 26th, 2008 19:38 IP
Quote:
But with a guy like in your case, Izzi, I wouldn't have known what to do.
He was probably alright. You never know who you let in, and not all people are capable of keeping an evil person at bay.
How do you now feel about it?
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Well just so you do know. I didn't pick him up.
But it made me think why i chose to not.
i think mainly fear, for my life.
But what i was thinking on the way home was,
what is a selfless act then?
I believe it's putting yourself aside to help someone. Without concern for yourself. showing unselfish concern for the welfare of others.
but i guess it comes down to; is dying a selfish concern?
knowing that i guess i did the only logical thing. Besides, perhaps his walk gave him the time to think about why he was in the situation he was in.:shrug2:
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mystic light
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Posted April 26th, 2008 23:46 IP
Well, I think a monk would have picked him up. His robe would have sort of protected him....I think.
For laypeople it is important that they are able to distinguish between foolish and wise compassion.
If you risk your security or wellbeing it may not be wise. It may be wise to leave it to authorities, maybe place a call to the police and say that possibly a person is in need.
That's all a woman can do anyways.
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Izzi
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Posted April 27th, 2008 00:06 IP
Quote:
That's all a woman can do anyways.
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Interesting statement.
I wouldn't underestimate women; I have found women are very resourceful.
Even in situations when they are overpowered.
I must admit, I wouldn't have any greater of a chance than a woman. my physical build is small. My physical strength is not great.
But you shouldn't judge anyone by their gender or size.
Humans are a surprising bunch.
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Izzi
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Posts: 31
Registered: Jun 2007 |
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Posted April 27th, 2008 00:30 IP
Quote:
mystic light wrote:
For laypeople it is important that they are able to distinguish between foolish and wise compassion.
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It's funny that you bring that up.
how does one distinguish between foolish and wise compassion. In the end it's still compassion after all?
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Persephone
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Posted April 27th, 2008 01:17 IP
I'm not sure what foolish or wise compassion might be. Compassion is simply compassion. It's not one or the other. I feel compassion or I don't. When I feel compassion, I may be fooled. It doesn't really matter much. Offering compassion adds to my life, it's not about another.
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A good example is the tallest kind of preaching.
African proverb |
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bigyouth
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Posts: 906
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Posted April 27th, 2008 01:24 IP
"In the end it's still compassion after all?" True enough Izzi but the thing that differs is the individual's ability to delivery compassion in any given situation. If you are not in a position to delivery compassion due to the situation it becomes a question of what are you really accomplishing anyway...maybe time to bring in additional help or call the authorities.
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"love and you will be open
seek and you will find
wisdom is found in the simplist of places
in the nick of time" |
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Lotus Buddhism Forum :: :: Taoism :: The Tao
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