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Advaita Vedanta |
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Peter_McWeeter
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 Posted July 10th, 2007 19:21 IP   
...and Ashtavakra Gita
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mystic light
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Posted July 10th, 2007 19:28 IP
Ha! cool, Pete....I love the Gita! Maybe I'll read a bit in it too. And Ed made me curious now.
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Peter_McWeeter
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Posted July 10th, 2007 19:31 IP
i'm reading it as it's coming out the printer and i'm impressed lol
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mystic light
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Posted July 10th, 2007 20:04 IP
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Peter_McWeeter wrote:
i'm reading it as it's coming out the printer lol
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:lol:
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Ed Akehurst
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Posted July 10th, 2007 21:17 IP
Here is What Osho says about the Ashtavakra Gita: (These is the first few pages of his commentaries)
We are embarking on a rare journey. Man has many scriptures, but none are comparable to the Gita of Ashtavakra. Before it the Vedas pale, the Upanishads are a mere whisper. Even the Bhagavadgita does not have the majesty found in the Ashtavakra Samhita -- it is simply unparalleled.
The most important thing is that neither society, nor politics, nor any other institution of human life had any influence on the statements of Ashtavakra. There are no other statements anywhere that are so pure, transcendental, and beyond time and space. Perhaps that is why Ashtavakra's Gita, the Ashtavakra Samhita, has not had much impact.
Krishna's Bhagavadgita has been very influential. The first reason is that Krishna's Gita is a synthesis. He is more concerned with synthesis than with truth. The desire for synthesis is so strong, that if necessary Krishna doesn't mind sacrificing the truth a little.
Krishna's Gita is a hodgepodge containing everything; hence it appeals to everyone, because there is something in it for everyone. It is difficult to find any tradition whose voice is not found in the Gita. It is difficult to find anyone who does not take solace from the Gita. But for such people Ashtavakra's Gita will prove very difficult.
People love Krishna's Gita because it is very easy to extract one's own meaning from it. Krishna's Gita is poetic: in it two plus two can equal five, two plus two can also equal three. No such tricks are possible with Ashtavakra. With him two plus two are exactly four. Ashtavakra's statements are statements of pure mathematics. There isn't the least possibility for poetic license here. He says things as they are, without any sort of compromise.
Reading Krishna's Gita, a devotee extracts something of which he can make a belief, because Krishna spoke on bhakti, devotion. The karma yogi extracts his belief because Krishna has spoken on karma yoga, the yoga of action. The believer in knowledge finds what he wants because Krishna has spoken on knowledge as well. Somewhere Krishna calls devotion the ultimate, somewhere else he calls knowledge the ultimate, again elsewhere he calls karma yoga the ultimate.
Krishna's statements are very political. He was a politician, a perfect politician. Just to say he was a politician is not right; he was a shrewd politician, a real diplomat. In his statements he considered and included many things. This is why the Gita suits everyone, why there are thousands of commentaries on the Gita.
No one is concerned with Ashtavakra, because to accept Ashtavakra you are going to have to drop yourself -- unconditionally.
You cannot bring yourself along. Only if you stay behind can you come near him. With Krishna you can bring yourself along. With Krishna there is no need to transform yourself. With Krishna you can fit just as you are.
Hence the founders of each tradition have written commentaries on Krishna's Gita -- Shankara, Ramanuja, Nimbaraka, Vallabha -- everyone. Each has extracted his own meaning. Krishna has said things in such a way as to allow multiple meanings; hence I call his Gita poetic. You can draw out any meaning you like from a poem.
Krishna's statements are like clouds surrounding you in the rainy season: you see in them whatever you want. Someone may see an elephant's trunk, someone sees the whole body of Ganesha, the elephant god. Someone may not see anything. He will say: "What nonsense! They are clouds, vapor -- how is it you see forms in them?"
In the West, psychoanalysts use the ink blot test: just pour some ink onto blotting paper and ask the person to say what he sees in it. The person looks carefully and sees something or other. There is nothing there, only an ink stain on blotting paper -- randomly thrown, not thrown with any design, just poured from the bottle. But the person looking at it finds something or other. What he finds is in his mind, he has projected it.
You must have seen lines made by rain falling on a wall. Some-times a man's face is seen, sometimes a horse's face is seen. You project onto it what you want to see. In the dark of night, clothes hanging on a line seem like ghosts.
Krishna's Gita is just like this -- you will be able to see whatever is in your mind. So Shankara sees knowledge, Ramanuja sees devotion, Tilak sees action -- and each returns home in a cheerful mood thinking that what Krishna says is the same as his belief.
Emerson has written that once a neighbor came and borrowed the works of Plato from him. Plato lived two thousand years ago and is one of the world's rare, unique thinkers. Weeks later Emerson reminded him: "If you've read the books please return them." When the neighbor returned them Emerson asked: "How did you like them?"
The man said: "This man Plato's thoughts are in complete agreement with mine. I felt many times: how has this man come to know my thoughts?" Plato lived two thousand years earlier and this fellow suspects that Plato has stolen his thoughts!
This kind of suspicion often arises with Krishna too. Centuries have passed and commentaries on Krishna keep on coming. Each century finds its own meaning, each person finds his own meaning. Krishna's Gita is like an ink blot...it is the statement of the perfect politician.
You cannot extract any beliefs from Ashtavakra's Gita.
Only if you drop yourself as you move into it, will Ashtavakra's Gita become clear to you. Ashtavakra's message is crystal clear. You won't be able to add even a small bit of your own interpretation to it. Hence people have not written commentaries on Ashtavakra's Gita. There is no scope for writing a commentary; there is no way to distort or twist it. Your mind has no chance to add anything. Ashtavakra has given such an expression that no one has been able to add or take anything from it, even though centuries have passed. It is not easy to give such a perfect expression. Such skill with words is very difficult to come by.
This is why I say we are starting off on a rare journey.
Politicians have no interest in Ashtavakra. Not Tilak, not Aurobindo, not Gandhi, not Vinoba: none of them has any interest, because with Ashtavakra they cannot go on playing their own games. Tilak's interest was to inspire nationalism. He wanted the whole country to get involved in action -- and Krishna's Gita was helpful. Krishna is ready to lend a shoulder to anyone. Whosoever wants to steady themselves on his shoulder and shoot their bullets -- Krishna is ready. The shoulder is his, you can take the opportunity to hide behind it. And shooting from behind his shoulder makes even bullets appear significant.
Ashtavakra doesn't allow anyone to even rest their hand on his shoulder. So Gandhi is not interested, Tilak is not interested, Aurobindo, Vinoba have nothing to do with him, because they cannot impose anything. There is no room for politics -- Ashtavakra is not a political being.
This is the first thing you need to keep in mind...such crystal clarity, an expression like an open sky with no cloud in sight, you cannot see any forms. Only when you drop all forms, become disidentified with all forms and get connected with the formless, will you be able to comprehend Ashtavakra.
If you really want to understand Ashtavakra you will have to descend into the depths of meditation.
No commentary, no interpretation will be of any help.
And for meditation Ashtavakra does not ask us to sit and chant: "Ram, Ram." He says that anything you do will not be meditation. How can there be meditation when there is a doer? As long as there is doing, there is illusion. As long as the doer is present, the ego is present. Ashtavakra says becoming a witness is meditation. Then the doer disappears; you remain only as watcher, nothing but the observer. When you are nothing but the observer then only is there darshan, seeing; then only is there meditation, then only is there wisdom.
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"Bye and Bye comes the Great Awakening, and we find that this life is really a great dream...Then we are embraced in Obliterating Unity. There is a perfect adaptation to whatever may happen - and so we complete our alotted span." - Chuang Tzu, ch.11 |
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kannada
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Posted July 10th, 2007 23:45 IP
Hi Ed;
I'm really glad you like the Ashtavakra Gita, for a moment there I thought it was just me. I like the Byrom version because it was short and succinct, at the time I had come to a point where I'd read too much and was suffering from information overload. Byrom's AG was refreshingly brief...
Pete, hi;
Here's a couple of other sites on Advaita. Technically speaking the Bhagavad Gita is (from my flawed memory) more a treatise on Yoga/Bhakti/Ascetism/Dharma etc. It is a part of the sixth book that forms the Mahabharata (great epic) though I suppose it still could be ultimately seen as Advaita. Regardless though, if it works for you then that's what counts...
Advaita.org
The Man Who Wasn't There
k
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The great difficulty here is that there isn't one... Wei Wu Wei |
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Ed Akehurst
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Posted July 11th, 2007 14:30 IP
Quote:
kannada wrote:
Hi Ed;
I'm really glad you like the Ashtavakra Gita, for a moment there I thought it was just me. I like the Byrom version because it was short and succinct, at the time I had come to a point where I'd read too much and was suffering from information overload. Byrom's AG was refreshingly brief...
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I agree!
Have you read the AtmaDarshan by Sri Atmananda Krishna Menon? It is very succinct and pointed like the Gita of Ashtavakra.
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"Bye and Bye comes the Great Awakening, and we find that this life is really a great dream...Then we are embraced in Obliterating Unity. There is a perfect adaptation to whatever may happen - and so we complete our alotted span." - Chuang Tzu, ch.11 |
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Peter_McWeeter
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Posted July 11th, 2007 19:21 IP
Ashtavakra Gita...
I'm honest when I say this, it's incredibly beautiful...This seems to be really touching me.
I can see exactly what you mean about it being impossible to twist or distort.
I really can't stop reading it at the moment 
And i'd never even heard of it until yesterday...
Thank you
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kannada
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Posted July 11th, 2007 21:43 IP
Quote:
Ed Akehurst wrote:
I agree!
Have you read the AtmaDarshan by Sri Atmananda Krishna Menon? It is very succinct and pointed like the Gita of Ashtavakra.
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No I haven't. Is it available on the net? I tried a search and came up with a brief description of his teachings from advaita.org but not that particular one.
Regards
k
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The great difficulty here is that there isn't one... Wei Wu Wei |
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mystic light
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Posted July 11th, 2007 22:45 IP
I missed the link, Pete. Where is it?
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riv:::
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Posted July 12th, 2007 05:10 IP
Concerning the Ashtavakra Gita...
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Ed Akehurst wrote:
The Ashtavakra Gita is the absolute best work on Advaita Vedanta. Actually, it's the best work on non-duality, period. Nothing is more clearer, not even the Baghavad Gita or the Upanishads...
The Ashtavakra Gita is, in my humble opinion, probably the greatest "spiritual" diolgue ever put into a written format. it is the beginning, the middle, and the end. There is no more. it is beautiful and brilliant. I recommend one understand it fully - truly, not just intellectually, and then read other spiritual works, such as the Tao Te Ching, and one will see them in a completely different light. The AG will illuminate even these other works.
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Quote:
Peter_McWeeter wrote:
Ashtavakra Gita...
I'm honest when I say this, it's incredibly beautiful...This seems to be really touching me.
I can see exactly what you mean about it being impossible to twist or distort.
I really can't stop reading it at the moment
And i'd never even heard of it until yesterday...
Thank you
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Yeah, i hadn't heard of it either. Just started looking at it now. It is beautiful...
:heart:
Quote:
Ashtavakra Gita
Janaka said: 1.1 Master, how is Knowledge to be achieved, detachment acquired, liberation attained?
Ashtavakra said: 1.2 To be free, shun the experiences of the senses like poison. Turn your attention to forgiveness, sincerity, kindness, simplicity, truth.
1.3 You are not earth, water, fire or air. Nor are you empty space. Liberation is to know yourself as Awareness alone? the Witness of these.
1.4 Abide in Awareness with no illusion of person. You will be instantly free and at peace.
1.5 You have no caste or duties. You are invisible, unattached, formless. You are the Witness of all things. Be happy.
1.6 Right and wrong, pleasure and pain, exist in mind only. They are not your concern. You neither do nor enjoy. You are free. |
wonderful..!
:P
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mystic light wrote:
I missed the link, Pete. Where is it?
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hi anna! kannada provided the link below. Check out also the Advaita Bodha Deepika, it's also excellent....
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kannada wrote:
Hi Peter;
I suppose you've checked out the net, there's plenty on the subject...
If you want a book try Shankara's "Crest Jewel of Discrimination" (Viveka Chudamani) by Swami Prabhavananda and Christopher Isherwood. This is one of the easier translations. Here's a PDF version on the net Viveka Chudamani
Or perhaps the Advaita Bodha Deepika this is a free PDF, though the book is available.
Another PDF is the Ashtavakra Gita. This version's ok but I prefer a different version (Thomas Byrom's "Heart of Awareness"). This is an excellent version and highly recommended.
I have all three books (various translations of them) and read them for many years, they are excellent examples of Advaita philosophy.
If you need help with explanations/interpretations I'd be happy to assist if I can...
k
(Edited by kannada)
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thank you (((kannada)))
:bow:
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mystic light
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Posted July 12th, 2007 10:18 IP
Ah! I saved it. Thanks!
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kannada
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Posted July 12th, 2007 13:47 IP
Here's some more of that Advaita stuff. :lol:
This ones seems to have quite a library...
Shankaracharya.org
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The great difficulty here is that there isn't one... Wei Wu Wei |
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riv:::
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Posted July 15th, 2007 02:11 IP
once again, thank you (((kannada)))
:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
still really enjoying the Ashtavakra Gita ...
Quote:
1: Instruction on Self-Realization
Janaka said: 1.1 Master, how is Knowledge to be achieved, detachment acquired, liberation attained?
Ashtavakra said: 1.2 To be free, shun the experiences of the senses like poison. Turn your attention to forgiveness, sincerity, kindness, simplicity, truth.
1.3 You are not earth, water, fire or air. Nor are you empty space. Liberation is to know yourself as Awareness alone― the Witness of these.
1.4 Abide in Awareness with no illusion of person. You will be instantly free and at peace.
1.5 You have no caste or duties. You are invisible, unattached, formless. You are the Witness of all things. Be happy.
1.6 Right and wrong, pleasure and pain, exist in mind only. They are not your concern. You neither do nor enjoy. You are free.
1.7 You are the Solitary Witness of All That Is, forever free. Your only bondage is not seeing This.
1.8 The thought: “I am the doer” is the bite of a poisonous snake. To know: “I do nothing” is the wisdom of faith. Be happy.
1.9 A single understanding: “I am the One Awareness,” consumes all suffering in the fire of an instant. Be happy.
1.10 You are unbounded Awareness― Bliss, Supreme Bliss-- in which the universe appears like the mirage of a snake in a rope. Be happy.
1.11 It is true what they say: “You are what you think.” If you think you are bound you are bound. If you think you are free you are free.
1.12 You are Self―the Solitary Witness. You are perfect, all-pervading, One. You are free, desireless, forever still. The universe is but a seeming in You.
1.13 Meditate on this: “I am Awareness alone--Unity itself.” Give up the idea that you are separate, a person, that there is within and without.
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:heart:
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Peter_McWeeter
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Posted July 15th, 2007 16:01 IP
edit - started quoting but then realised i'd probably be glued to the computer for hours lol And probably end up quoting the whole thing...
(Edited by Peter_McWeeter)
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mystic light
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Posted July 15th, 2007 16:22 IP
:lol:
I'm immersed in meditation and Sufi readings today, - a sunny day.
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Peter_McWeeter
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Posted July 15th, 2007 17:04 IP
Yeah I really will meditate later this evening, before bed, I haven't meditated for about a week. Whoops.
I've been reading Ashtavakra Gita and been watching Eckhart Tolle videos on youtube all day. I wrote for about an hour too. So actually quite a productive day!
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mystic light
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Posted July 15th, 2007 17:54 IP
Yes, I think that was quite productive!
I really slowed down today. The weather is so nice, and I had a day devoted to myself. Just resting.
Healthy meals cooked with no hurry, and meditation in the garden . Reading on the patio. Just to be able to be outdoors and in touch with nature once again was nice.
I fed Jake too.
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Peter_McWeeter
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Posted July 15th, 2007 20:37 IP
Yeah, glass of red wine or rose, chilling in the garden watching the birds chase each other in the sky...I have to do that at least half an hour in the evening, especially sundays...After all it's God's day of rest so we have to conform 
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mystic light
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Posted July 15th, 2007 21:42 IP
Actually when I felt the busy bee in me arising I thought Of : On the 7 th day rest.
I think there is wisdom in this.
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Peter_McWeeter
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Posted July 15th, 2007 21:53 IP
yeah but I think he should've rested on the 4th 5th and 6th day aswell...
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mystic light
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Posted July 15th, 2007 21:57 IP
That's not for me to judge.
acceptance of what is..... embracing the Big Mind, hey.
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mystic light
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Posted July 15th, 2007 21:58 IP
We are soooo offtopic. *blush* :eek: :duck:
Advaita vedanta, right?
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riv:::
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Posted July 20th, 2007 17:06 IP
:duck:
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riv:::
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Posted February 10th, 2008 02:45 IP
Last week I got back into one of the texts discussed here, the Advaita Bodha Deepika (link for free download, originally provided by kannada, some posts back). Wow, wow, wow! What everyone is talking about in this discussion, what these texts teach, its really the meat and potatoes of spirituality and mysticism, what all the great masters were pointing to. I think a lot of questions and topics that people are raising in other discussions, around the forum, are best answered by contemplating these teachings, and attempting to get oneself in tune with the wisdom. Which basically means seeing that ones "self" has always *been* an expression of the great ocean of wisdom that surrounds us, but was just day dreaming for awhile, spinning these fantasies we live, of ourselves as somehow separated...
:heart:
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Light Hope
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Posted February 13th, 2008 10:51 IP
Just started reading it. It seems good so far.
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mystic light
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Posted February 13th, 2008 11:22 IP
Wow, what a wonderful image! Makes my heart sing.
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Persephone
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Posted February 14th, 2008 01:24 IP
Where is this Ashtavakra Gita? I have read the Veda, the Uphanishads, and the B. Gita, but I've not been introduced to the A. Gita. Please tell, please tell.
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A good example is the tallest kind of preaching.
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riv:::
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Posted February 14th, 2008 06:30 IP
Quote:
kannada wrote:
If you want a book try Shankara's "Crest Jewel of Discrimination" (Viveka Chudamani) by Swami Prabhavananda and Christopher Isherwood. This is one of the easier translations. Here's a PDF version on the net Viveka Chudamani
Or perhaps the Advaita Bodha Deepika this is a free PDF, though the book is available.
Another PDF is the Ashtavakra Gita. This version's ok but I prefer a different version (Thomas Byrom's "Heart of Awareness"). This is an excellent version and highly recommended.
I have all three books (various translations of them) and read them for many years, they are excellent examples of Advaita philosophy.
kannada
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:namaste:
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riv:::
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Posted February 16th, 2008 11:50 IP
Something from Wei Wu Wei....
'There is no mind but Mind'
Nothing is permanent except Consciousness Itself. Everything, intelligence, sensation, the body, is discrete, without continuity or duration. Every momentary manifestation of every one of these notions is a fresh manifestation of Consciousness Itself. That each such manifestation seems to resemble its immediate predecessor, giving the illusion of a continuous entity, has obscured the realisation of this essential condition.
This reveals the full meaning of what the Sages have told us, and we can see that Consciousness is the only Reality, alone IS, alone is us, and that there is nothing else to look for since It only is here and now.
It is us, we are It, anything else is just an apparent object of that Consciousness, i.e. a concept therein.
* * *
At every moment and in all circumstances we must realise our identity with Consciousness Itself, once and for all we must see ourselves united Therewith, observe as the Witness Itself everything perceived via senses or mind, including that mind and body themselves, realising everything so observed as apparent objects within this Consciousness outside Which there can be nothing.
This is the transference of identification from the so-called psycho-somatic apparatus to Reality, but it is in fact merely the removal of a false identification and a return to the norm. Nothing any longer can be seen as from a subject, as the object of a subject that is other than pure and original Consciousness (Reality) Itself. I, we, no longer see, hear, touch, smell, taste, think, feel, for there is not, could not be, any I or we, which were only notions that transformed transitory objects of Consciousness into imaginary entities. Such imaginary entities were powerless to do anything whatsoever, they were only thoughts renewed every instant, apparent objectivisations of Consciousness Itself. 'I', 'we' were evaluations, notions, ideas: I, we are nothing but Consciousness, Reality, and never could be anything else.
'We' have no percepts, concepts or ideas of any kind, 'we' have nothing - for 'we' do not exist, only Consciousness appears to have them, and as Consciousness we know them.
Now that we are seeing directly at last - have we understood what we ARE?
* * *
That is the meaning of Vedanta Advaita, of the Lankavatara Sutra, of the Diamond Sutra, of Hui Neng, of Huang Po, of every explanation of the Maharshi.
Every authentic explanation coming from the plane of Reality tries to tell us just that. A re-statement, certainly not in any way 'better' in itself, but in current language, may cause understanding to arise, but such understanding cannot come from the transient phenomenal aspect of mind: it can only come if an intuition of Consciousness Itself finds sudden dualistic expression via the projected mind.
Wei Wu Wei,
Integration (Why Lazarus Laughed)
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Lotus Buddhism Forum :: :: Spirituality & Religion. :: Advaita Vedanta
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