Jessica Silansky is a Certified Methadone Advocate, a certified Hepatitis C Educator and a Substance Abuse Counselor. Jessica’s most recent position was in Springfield, Massachusetts as a Case Manager for clients with the Disease of Addiction. Jessica is a graduate of Westfield State College Addiction Counselor Education Program. Jessica resides in the Springfield, Massachusetts area where she is currently spending time with her family and is a full time college student working on her ultimate goal of a masters degree in Counseling Psychology
Jessica first came to MethadoneSupport.org/PregnancyInfo seeking advice about pregnancy and methadone for herself and she has been here ever since. Her special interest in methadone and pregnancy drove her to expand her knowledge and she attended the New England School of Addiction Studies where she took classes in methadone and pregnancy. Jessica has been studying under Sharon Dembinski (a well known expert in this field) and learning all she can while she filled the role of Pregnancy Support Specialist for the site.
After finding recovery back in January 2005 Jessica found her calling and discovered her passion- Substance Abuse Counseling. It was through the death of someone very close to her that she came to realize that she needed to seek recovery and change her life. Jessica has had two babies while in treatment on methadone and is grateful for her recovery and the lifesaving medication that assisted her in maintaining her recovery and assuring the healthy outcomes to both her pregnancies. Jessica felt so strongly about methadone maintenance treatment that she traveled to the American Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence (AATOD) convention in New York City in April of 2009 where she attended the course to become a Certified Methadone Advocate (CMA).
Jessica quickly realized that her true calling within her passion of substance abuse counseling was methadone and pregnancy. She loves working with all the women that find our site in need of support, education and facts. Jessica plans to be here for a long time to come and working on our pregnancy support forum is a tremendous joy for her. Sharon Dembinski asked Jessica to serve as site Administrator a few months ago and Jessica accepted that role.
Sharon remains on as Expert Consultant and is available to Jessica 24/7!
We at MSO are proud and grateful to have Jessica here!....
Carol Sholiton
Founder/CEO - Methadone Support Org.
**ONE MUST BE REGISTERED ON FORUMS IN ORDER TO POST!**
Sharon *ADMINISTRATOR* Posts: 1312 Registered: Mar 2006
Posted October 14th, 2007 06:25 PM IPWelcome! Please post and tell us a little about yourself when you feel comfortable.
Susie and I are here to help, support and educate you. If we don't know the answer to your questions we will do our best to find out for you!
Hugs,
Sharon and SusieSharon Dembinski, PNP, CMA
Pediatric Nurse Practitioner
Certified Methadone Advocate
Board of Directors- Methadone Support Org
doxylover79 Member
Posts: 2 Registered: Oct 2007
Posted October 17th, 2007 01:32 PM IPHi, I am going to be a new grandmother around Jan. 10. My daughter has been on methadone treatment for approximately 12 months for a drug addiction. We've been told conflicting things from the doctors who are in her ob/gyn group about what to expect when my grandson is born. Is there any chance her baby will be born without a methadone addiction, and if he does have a methadone addiction, will he have to stay in the hospital when she is released? We are just very confused about what to expect and what to be prepared for. Anything you guys can tell me will help.
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted October 17th, 2007 09:42 PM IPHi Doxylover: Welcome to the family and congratulations to you grandma and to your daughter. Is this the first grandchild?
You will find this place a wonderful, supportive environment for yourself and your daughter if she is interested in coming on. We do not judge people, we support them in whatever they choose. We help guide them sometimes to decisions that are safe and healthy for mom and baby.
I tell everyone who first joins this very thing. You should go thru all of the posts (even in the archives if you have the time) and read them..or skim quickly thru them.
Even if a post seems that it has NOTHING that relates to you (or your daughter) chances are that somewhere throughout the postings there will be alot of relevant material in it.
Don't get caught up on the title or the body of the first post. We tend to go off on tangents alot here (and I think it is great...that way....it sparks us to say Oh yeah...I didn;'t think about that..." ..and get answers which they may not have even thought about yet.
And..throughout the posts things come up that most likely are things that you are concerned about...but haven't asked the question yet.
So...feel free to peruse through and take what you need from each of the posts.
But of course...if there is something that you don't understand or want more info on...please don't hesitate to ask..even if it has been covered already. I find that helpful also to the other girls.
Now..for some of your concerns.
No...not ALL babies born to MMT mom's will have a methadone addiction ..which we call NAS (Neonatal Abstinance Syndrome). Sometimes though...the symptoms are so similar to normal symptoms that a newborn goes thru...it is hard to tell if it is NAS or not. Some NAS is so slight that it probably wouldn't be picked up as NAS if they didn't know the mom was on methadone.
Chances are that if the symptoms are very very slight, they wouldn't do anything except monitor the baby after birth to make sure the symptoms don't get worse.
There is a scale they go by called a Finnigan Score system. It has a list of characteristics that they look at and score the infant on a scale of 1 to 3 (at least at my hospital, the scoring was 1 to 3)..The higher the score on each of the characteristics the more the baby is showing NAS (ie...a high score is not as good as a low score..you want a low score.
For example(I am using my own Son for instance)..
At birth, he had alot of rigidity of his arms and legs...you could hardly pull the legs straight. He was given a score of 3 for this (the worst score) because he was so rigid.
Also...crying is another one they look for. A high pitched squeal is indicative of NAS, so it get a higher score (now..this becomes subjective in the scoring (which I had a problem with)..because one nurse's idea of a high pitch squeal is different from another nurse's. If one nurse is very knowledgable with NAS babies...a high pitched cry to her may be not so severe..she has seen worse...and gives the baby a 1 score. Whereas, another nurse, who maybe has less experience and has not heard alot of high pitched squeals from NAS babies may think...gosh..that is high..and score the baby a 3.
Therefore..when you add up all the score of the individual things that they score on this baby's score would have a difference of 2 points...which may seem like nothing to you..but could be the difference between starting more therapy to waiting to see how she does....
But don't let this get to you...in the grand scheme of things......the scoring tends to be fairly consistent. I just like to point out that certain things are subjective in scoring.
Now..Sharon will correct me if I'm wrong but I think that if the baby has 3 scores of 8 or higher, then they begin medicating. Usually (and hopefully) they use morphine for medication.
If under 8 they just give supportive care and watch to see if anything changes in the baby.
Some of the other things they look for in the Finnigan test is: body temperature...amt. of sleep between feeds....Heart rate...colour...etc...etc..I can't think of the rest right now..but you get the idea anyways.
Ok..where was I...Oh...now your question about whether your daughter will be released before the baby---->That all depends on each hospital's policy. This is something YOU SHOULD ASK THEM prior to the birth, so you know what may happen.
I was discharged on the 4th day...and stevie started showing signs of NAS on the 2nd day. They day I was discharged, he was sent to the special Nursery (step down from ICU) where he stayed for about 4 weeks.
I was able to visit ANYTIME DAY OR NIGHT OR STAY 24HOURS IF I WANTED EXCEPT: During the times of shift change (and if it is 12 hours, then usually they make you leave between 6:45 and 7:30 am and pm..or somewhere around those times) and make you leave when the Dr's are doing rounds.
Other than those times...she is free to come and go as she pleases.
Oh another thing...usually NAS does not show up immediately after birth. It can take anywhere from 2days to 9 days to show up. Now that is the extreme....Usually the average is about 2 to 4 day. So...I would be concerned if on lets say..the 2nd day the baby is showing No signs of NAS and they want to discharge it home with mom...I would be very leary of that because chances are...it just hasn't developed inside her(baby) yet...and you take it home..and then on day 4 you have a baby having NAS and you just have to bring her back. Plus that is very stressful for the mom, wondering about every little thing..is this NAS or is it normal?
Something for you to remember.
The half life of methadone is very long, therefore, it takes a few days without the methadone to see any withdrawl symptoms.
Well, if you have any more questions...feel free...and again I want to welcome you to our family.
Congrats.
Susie.
doxylover79 Member
Posts: 2 Registered: Oct 2007
Posted October 20th, 2007 06:04 PM IPThanks so much Susie. I have been going through all the posts and am finding a lot of information that is helping us to understand this more. This is our first grandchild. We are so worried about him and about what the methadone will do to him. My daughter is learning more and more on your website, things her doctors haven't told her. She also is writing down a lot of things so she can ask the right questions at her next doctor's appointment. I'm so happy we found you guys and get to hear from women who have gone through this, their differing circumstances and how their babies are doing. This website is a godsend.
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted October 20th, 2007 06:11 PM IPJust remember that alot of Dr's aren't that familiar with methadone and babies....you will find some of the girls here have said that their dr's say they know stuff, but when it came right down to the crunch...they really didn't know much.
So..it is BEST that YOU guys be educated in it...learn as much as you can BEFORE the due date and most of all.....don't be afraid to ask questions or challenge their decisions......remember they are NOT GOD....
Read "momofanangel's" post from the posting titled NEW MEMBER (it is the 2nd last one)....she discusses this very issue and was armed with the knowledge that her dr's weren't and she felt so much better knowing that she was educated.
Talk soon.
Susie.
Jennifer Member
Posts: 2 Registered: Oct 2007
Posted October 28th, 2007 10:37 PM IPHello. My name is Jen, I'm 29 & I've been on methadone for a little over a year & a half. I've been decreasing my dose (from 120mg) & I can't seem to get past 70mg. I really wanted to get totally off before I had a baby but time is ticking & at this rate it won't be for a while. I joined this group to get some info. My boyfriend is also on methadone, we started on it together (we've been together for 10 years). I'm not pregnant yet but we have been talking about wanting to have a baby.
I'm so glad to have found this group (thanks to one of the ladies from a different forum).
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted October 29th, 2007 11:51 AM IPJen: Is this the Jen from Topix that I have been trying to get the link for????
If it is...I am MMTer....and welcome..I am so glad you found the site...I don't know what is up with that topix site..sometimes you can access the links on it, and sometimes you can't
Welcome..and glad to see you here.
Susie.
ladymp33 Member
Posts: 34 Registered: Oct 2007
Posted October 29th, 2007 12:43 PM IPHi Everyone my name is Michele and I too am on methadone (80 mgs) a day and just found out that my husband and I are expecting our first child. I am almost 5 weeks along and was going to detox myself quickly as I was afraid I would hurt the baby but when I stumbled across your site I changed my mind completely. I am stressed out anyway due to the fact that I got married on 9-28 and my hubby went to jail on 10-10. We actually concieved the night before. He is in jail for Domestic Violence on me however he did not hurt me he just put his hands onme and yelled in my face which in my state (VA) that is illegal. As this should be a happy time I am utterly sad and depressed. He was the one that worked so I am also broke. I am hoping when he goes to court on 11-28 they let him out or I think I will just lose it. Also, he is bi-polar and the reason he lost it was he had not taken his meds in months. An hour before the "incident" he went to the Community services board to get help and they told him to come back Monday I feel as though had they done something then this would have never happened. He has now been in jail for 3 weeks and is back on his meds and doing wonderfully and is estatic about the baby. I need his support now more than ever and am so thankful I found this site it has made me feel not so alone..... Sorry for the long post I just needed to talk to someone.
Thanx!
Michele
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted October 29th, 2007 04:44 PM IPWelcome to our happy home Michele. This site I can honestly say is the one site where I feel more comfortable than ever in talking about things that are on my mind. Even if it doesn't have to do with MMT and pregnancy....hey....we all need somewhere SAFE to turn to on those day we think we are just going to lose it. Not to mention that our hormones are raging anyways.
Congratulations on your FIRST baby. I had my first in March. This is my little Peanut over here
<-----------
I am so sorry about your predicament. Why so long in jail? Has he had a hearing yet?..if so..were you able to speak at it?...or is his first hearing on Nov. 28th?..(that just seems so far away ....and not that putting hands on someone is any less threatening than hitting...I would think they would take into account the incident itself??
Welll...keep your head up...think positive. Life happens to be lived on a rollercoaster. One minute you are flying high..everything going great...the next minute is a problem..or catastrophy...or something negative that happens in your life.....then...in a short while...you get on the upside again and things are going well.
This is how I find life goes....we just have to remember that the GOOD times WILL come again...it's just a matter of when...
Think Positive.
And Welcome to our family and Congrats on your new baby.
Quote: susie3827 wrote:
Jen: Is this the Jen from Topix that I have been trying to get the link for????
If it is...I am MMTer....and welcome..I am so glad you found the site...I don't know what is up with that topix site..sometimes you can access the links on it, and sometimes you can't
Welcome..and glad to see you here.
Susie.
Yes Susie it is. THANK YOU soooo much for telling me about this site!! This is a great site of wonderful people. It's really nice to hear experiences straight from the people that experienced it then from what you read from books & pamphlets from counselors.
The past 2-3 weeks, I've really been thinking about having a baby a lot, even when I see a baby or small kids in the street I really look at them & smile, I've done that before.
Again Susie, thanks so much, you're the one lady I was talking about in my other post!
~Jen
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted November 1st, 2007 01:59 PM IPJen: I am not going to try and tell you what to do but just give you a bit of insight into my situation.
I am 42...married once, no kids..divorced...married again in2003 to a wonderful man (who I met on an internet dating site, I might add..lol..) He is now 49.
Neither one of us had kids.
I just felt that hey, if it happens, it happens because I was resigned to the fact that I was probaby too old by now. This did make me sad, but if it wasn't in the cards...then it wasn't to be.
I found out last July I was pregnant and was shocked. I also wondered what it would be like having a methadone baby...so I did some research.
Once I found this site, it all made sense to me...I was given this gift of conception and by gosh, I was going to make something of it. For if it wasn't to be....then it wouldn't have happened. I am a fatalist...I believe highly in Fate...things happen for a reason.
I had an absolute wonderful pregnancy. I usually have lower back trouble that hurts alot when I sit or stand for long periods of time...in pregnancy, I thought it would get worse...you know what?...I didn't get one ounce of pain thru the whole 10 months (lets face it...everyone says 9 months...but when you get down to it..it really is 10 months..lol...)
And although my Stevie did have some NAS and had to be in the special nursery for about 4 weeks, he shows NO signs of anything negative now. In fact...my neighbour (who is an NICU nurse, told me that she has worked with methadone babies and she says that they are happier babies overall)..I believe that because my Stevie is such a happy go lucky little guy...nothing fazzes (sp?) him...if he drops a toy on his head he doesn't even cry...I am amazed.
I truly believe that we can have happy healthy well adjusted babies while on Methadone maintenance. As long as we listen to our bodies, and our Dr's and DO the RIGHT THINGS...our babies will be just as wonderful as any other babies NOT born to mmt moms.
So...I guess in all my babbling I am trying to say that if you feel it is right for you NOW, and it happens....then look at this as a sign that you ARE doing the right thing.
If you wait...who knows what could happen....I truly believe that you are doing NOTHING WRONG in having a baby while on methadone maintenance.
Do we tell mom's on insulin, or mom's on dilantin to NOT have babies?
No, so why are we to be any different because of the nature of our disease?
I would say that if your feelings are as strong as you portray them to be in your post then if I were you...I would throw away the condoms or pills and see what happens.
You may just be pleasantly surprised.
It is the most wonderful experience in the whole world. The love you feel for that little one really is like none other.
Hope my babbling helped...if not..sorry I went on and on...lol...
Take care and PLEASE PLEASE...keep me informed of how things are going..ok?
And....I stress to you...read ALL of the posts, even in the archives...the titles may not interest you but I can assure you that we tend to flip flop thru ALOT of different topics in the one posting. You will get SOMETHING out of all of them I am positive of that.
Congrats for finding us....this is the one family who will NOT judge you and will provide you with unconditional love and caring.
Susie.
daniellewb Member
Posts: 3 Registered: Nov 2007
Posted November 13th, 2007 07:28 PM IPAlthough I have visited this site many times over the last 6 months or so since I first found out about it, this is my first time registering and posting. I am currently 41 weeks and 1 day along in my MMT pregnancy. I have remained on 20mg the entire duration and once my daughter, Savannah Marie finally decides she would like to meet me and her dad, will wait for my doctor to start me on suboxone at about 6 weeks down the road (his advice)once my hormones return to some sort of normalcy and then start the detox process. I can't wait to be free and like many of you regret ever starting taking methadone to begin with which is what I started out with (vs other pain med dependency)after a tummy tuck and some more than willing people in my life to recommend taking it for the pain. One thing led to the other and almost 3 years and a pregnancy later, here I am...determined to get off and stay off. I am so grateful I was able to stay on such a low dose and am optimistic that my baby will not experience NAS though I have read controversial things about the low dose, actually on this site. I am hoping that in my case it will help rather than hinder. I seem to be an exception to the rule so far, my baby was estimated to be 8lbs 10 oz last Monday and is probably close to being a 9 pounder now so she definately didnt have any of the low birth weight issues and was always off the chart with each 3 week ultrasound I received for being considered "high risk". Which was the best thing about being considered such, it was awesome to see her development unfold before our very eyes!!! Also, some of you might find this controversial, I elected to have a natural, home, water birth, prayed first and then found a midwife/birthing center that was willing to learn about MMT and its associated risks before taking us on. I switched from an OB in about my 6th month for various reasons, but mainly to try to avoid unnecessary prolonged neonatal observation, keyword being unnecessary. I also consulted the pediatrician to make sure that she is seen within a day of birth and regularly from thereonout to rule out NAS. My fingers are crossed and my palms are folded. I did research high risk peds (cant think of their medical title at the moment) but they are normally found at the hospital in the neonatal unit. I was dissapointed that I was unable to find that type of dr to practice outside of the hospital setting because I really have tried to cover all possibilities but do feel confident that I have made an informed decision. Please keep me in your thoughts and "prayers" for those of you thats applicable to...I have had lots of questions during this pregnancy, most of which have been answered here either by you all, Sharon or the Medical Provider section(one very good source of information being a very technical article with chart(s) displaying stats of NAS and maternal MMT dosage). But here's my latest and greatest inquiry since Im being kinda lazy about looking through the threads for the specifics I'm interested in, so if your willing, please reply and let me know who if any remained on or about 20 mg throughout; what their birth experience was; if there was NAS and any other info you can provide on your baby's experience with that; who had natural labor; no pain medication and if the methadone interfered with your body's natural ablility to produce the endorphins to help deal with pain; if anyone else had a home and/or water birth; and lastly if anyone found that being on MMT interfered with the body's ability to produce the oxytocin necessary for starting labor or just had a hard time going into labor for whatever reason. That last one is pretty important to me at this time since Im overdue and nothing seems to be speeding the process along and I am starting to get concerned that my entire birth plan and everything I've worked for will not go as desired and I'll inevitably end up in a hospital setting, induced with pitocin, requiring an epidural, confined to bed, possible cesearan and my daughter being kept for up to 6 weeks like so many of you shared they kept your lil' ones for.
But I haven't put much thought into that possibilty have I ;o)
Thats about it, as if it weren't enough...Good luck to all of you in your own processes and I look forward to hearing back and keeping you posted about my own experience.Danielle
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted November 13th, 2007 09:32 PM IPWelcome Danielle...congrats on your upcoming birth...geez...you are getting to the overdue stage. Hopefully things will go as you planned..
One thing I have found out is that nothing goes EXACTLY as planned. It is great that you have secured the midwife, and are having a home birth without medications...but...not to be a 'downer' ....sometimes you need to realize that you may need a backup plan because these babies do what they want.
I am concerned that if you are coming overdue, and your baby is large that you may have problems delivering at home, and that you may have to end up going to the hospital for induction and maybe even a c-section.
I don't know what your body characteristics are like (ie...I have a small pelivc inlet and there was no way that an 8 lb baby would have been able to come thru there...even a 7 lb. So when I was told the c-section was what would have to be....I was all for it. I really didn't want to get ripped open and have them use forceps on my little guy, which is what would have had happened if they had continued on with a vag. delivery.
Just wanted to get you in a mode that you 'consider' all the options and all the circumstances that may arise The last thing I would want to see happen to you is that your wonderful birth experience that you have worked so hard to get the way you want it...may not happen your way and you to be disappointed in that.
I have read somewhere that it is only a small percentage of 'planned home births' that actually turn out that way. So, just keep your mind open to other options.
I am praying that this birth happens the way you want it....it sounds like you have done all your homework and have all your ducks in a row. I like the fact that a pediatrician will be seeing your baby post birth...just make sure this pediatrician is EDUCATED on signs of NAS...sometimes they are so similar to what 'normally' babies first born go thru that some don't pick up the specific cues of NAS. I hope, and assume that you have taken care of this too...good.
I am not aware of any scientific data that has claimed that mmt interferes with the body's ability to produce oxytocin necessary for starting labor.
You are talking about a whole different gland that produces the oxytocin that has Nothing at all to do with MMT or the way MMT is absorbed and distributed throughout the body. That I would NOT worry about.
One other thing I need to mention, just to clarify is that nobody on this site who has given birth that I know of has ever had their baby stay in the ICU for 6 weeks. That is practically unheard of these days...
Well, I will keep my fingers crossed that your labor does not get too far overdue. I also commend you on your organization of this labor and doing it the way YOU want..(ie..not caving in to the 'norm' that some Dr's like to 'gently persuade' us into).
Remember, if it doesn't go your way----->that doesn't mean you failed, or did something WRONG...ok?
Babies just naturally DO NOT DO what we want them to...you will find that out very well for yourself later on down the line..lol...(just like I have had to...grrrr sometimes you get a whole plan in motion and then you have to change everything around cause the baby just doesn't cooperate...lol..)
Please keep us posted, I am very interested to hear how it goes.
Good luck and thanks for joining our family.
Take care.
Susie.
Sharon *ADMINISTRATOR* Posts: 1312 Registered: Mar 2006
Posted November 13th, 2007 11:21 PM IPGreat response Susie!
Welcome Danielle! Glad to hear that reading the posts here have been helpful to you.
Your individual situation is quite unique and I'm happy you shared it with us.
A few points I'd like to reply to:
1. If you go beyond 42 wks you will more than likely need an induction- I hope not, but it is a real possibility and at over 42 wks the risk of fetal distress is increased significantly
2. I'm a bit worried about the fact that your baby will not be assessed for the signs and symptoms of NAS every 4 hrs by a skilled professional. While one study revealed less significant NAS in babies born to mothers on methadone for the treatment of pain who were on doses similar to yours, there is still a chance your baby may have NAS and it's important that it be diagnosed and treated when appropriate and necessary.
3. Overall, the percent of methadone exposed babies who require treatment for NAS is 60-87% and hospital stays for those babies are 2-6 wks. While 6 wks is less frequent these days, it still happens and there have been a few moms who have visited our site in the past who have reported these prolonged stays.
4. Just about all babies exposed to methadone will experience some withdrawal signs and symptoms, but not all will require treatment. The key to safe care of these babies is to assure that a skilled, educated provider is assessing where along that spectrum your baby falls.
I wish you the very, very best and look forward to hearing that all your wishes for a healthy baby and fulfilling delivery experience come true!
Hugs,
Sharon
Sharon Dembinski, PNP, CMA
Pediatric Nurse Practitioner
Certified Methadone Advocate
Board of Directors- Methadone Support Org
Maggie Member
Posts: 217 Registered: Mar 2008
Posted March 10th, 2008 05:25 AM IPHello, Im pregnant with my second child and on methadone, I emailed Sharon last week for advice, as i didn't realize there was an information forum, which is great by the way.
My situation is, I'm on 20 mls and 7-8 weeks pregnant, I was also on methadone when i carried my first child, Annaya, I was on 80 mls and was reduced at 1 mil per week till i reached 50 and stopped, but I had such a terrible time of it, when I hit 3 months, i started to w/d really bad, I dont know what was going on inside my body, but I felt like i was only getting half my dose and when i was feeling like that, my baby was too, it was just torture.
When I went to see my drug worker to explain what i was going through, i was sternly told it was all in my head, which was the worst thing they could have told me, I was then told that I couldn't increase my methadone by 10 mls as it was selfish and i was only thinking about myself, and they gave me a very horrible detailed report of how the baby would suffer when born, which had me in a state of tears and anxiety. So me and my unborn child basically left to w/d for 6 months, it was sheer hell and I lost all faith in the people that were supposed to be there to help myself and my unborn child. Luckily enough she wasn't underweight, but she did suffer w/d and was released after 2 weeks, she did suffer from terrible colic until she was two and she was hard work as a baby and still is, I think it's a wee throwback from the w/d she went through.
And I'm now back in the same situation and Im starting to get very adgitated at night and feel my dose isn't holding me, but I know they will not want to increase me, as they think its better for the baby long term if your dose is low, but after hearing from Sharon and doing my own research, what they are doing is dangering the mother and baby. So Im very worried that were going to be left to suffer again, and the thought of my baby w/d inside me is just too much, so Im a bit of an emotional wreck atm. I suffer from severe anxiety too, and have relied on beta blockers for the last 4 years, but I've had to stop taking them and my anxiety is really getting me down.
Im just in such a state, I cannot stop worrying about going through w/d for months, Im just worried about everything.. hope you dont mind me venting here as Im not a US citizen, Im actually Scottish.. but we dont have support forums like this. it seems the health care and knowledge we have here, is very poor in comparison.
Im going to ask my drug worker today if I can increase 5 mls per week until I reach 40 mls, then I can hopefully split the dose to 20 in the morning and 20 in the evening, so Im just praying they agree to it.
Sweet_Serenity Member Posts: 118 Registered: Oct 2007
Posted March 10th, 2008 10:20 AM IPfirst of all welcome. sorry it s under these circumstances, but atleast you made your way to this site this time, first of all, is there no where else you could go for treatment? Are you on for pain or addiction,there is so many articles her and on the internet,TAKE THEM TO YOUR WORKER, and dont take no for an answer, what does your ob say about all this? mayby if you find a educated ob on mmt, than you could have them give a call to your clinic, dont give up hope, i dont know about your finacail situation, but mayby there is some kind of legal advice you could seek, making your baby remain in a state of w/d can not be legal.....
Sweet_Serenity Member Posts: 118 Registered: Oct 2007
Posted March 10th, 2008 10:27 AM IPthere has to be something you can do! someone at your clinic that knows something, is there a social worker there, i dont know how things are over there, but there just had to be someone who knows what there talking about, you cant be the only one who has been pregnancy and in mmt over there, i would call the different clinics and explain your situation and get there take on mmt and pregnancy, dont give up and fight girl.....for yourself your baby and everyother pregnant woman that will come after you.. i will be praying for you and i am here if you need me...
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted March 10th, 2008 01:31 PM IPHi Maggie: welcome to our Family.
I am so glad that you got in touch with Sharon....I assume she gave you the important facts about NOT detoxing while pregnant and the fact that increases are usually necessary up until birth (usually beginning around the 20th week, although some may need to increase sooner, and some later...you know..everyone is different.
I hope that you aren't at the same clinic you were at with your first baby because I would say RUN not walk to find another clinic.
The best you can do is be ADAMENT about wanting the increase. What is also helpful is if you can print off some of the articles here, or ask Sharon to email you some that pertain to the need to increase your dose as you get closer to the birth. You need to give these to your worker to read.
I have found that most Dr's are not all that knowledgable about mmt and pregnancy and have found that WE as mom's need to educate them throughout our pregnancy. That being said...it would be nice to find someone who knows a little bit...but YOU have to be the aggressive one here...let me rephrase that...the ASSERTIVE one.
Also, what will help you is if you do split your dose....this has been known to be a much more beneficial way to dose and I wish I had done it with my little guy.
Do not let them berate you and tell you that you are a 'bad mother' or anything...be strong in your convictions that you ARE doing the right thing.
I also want to invite you to read the archives here because i know you will find alot of info, things that other new mom's are going thru, or have questions about and you will get alot of education and information if you skim thru the archives.
And of course...I and Sharon are always here for you for WHATEVER you need, and the girls on this site are absolutely fantastic and very very supportive.
We have had alot of new mom's lately (last 2 months or so) and a few who are getting ready to "pop" so to speak..lol..
We are ALL here to support and help in any way, shape or form..and NO question is a dumb question so remember that.
I am so so very sorry that you had to go thru that trauma with your first child....gosh, I can't even imagine how you were feeling with feeling bad withdrawls and worrying about your baby feeling them also.
I am so glad that she is ok now. Please don't let this happen to you again...be strong, arm yourself with all the info you can, if they start to protest.
And....don't be afraid to go up if you feel 'blah'...I know that your baby will be happier and you will be a happier mom. don't let anyone talk you out of increasing if YOU feel you need to. ok?
Hope this helps you a bit.
Don't hesitate to pm me if you would like to talk more.
Thanks for finding us...you are NOW a part of OUR family. Welcome HOME!!!!!
Lots of love,
Susie.
Sweet_Serenity Member Posts: 118 Registered: Oct 2007
Posted March 10th, 2008 02:24 PM IPmy clinic has us moms take blood tests to make sure that our dose is holding us throughout the day,,, why are they not doing this before they tell you its all in your head!!! mayby you could ask them, to do the test, i have to go to the hospital to get it done, but at about 30 weeks i started having just slight withdraw signs, so i asked to take the blood test (i think its called a trough level) to make sure that it wasnt all in my head, and sure enough my dose was not holding me 24 hours, I only had to go up 10 and i feel just fine. you can tell them if they dont belive you that the trough test doesn't lie,,, and to DO it NOW!! you have rights,, god bless
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted March 10th, 2008 06:48 PM IP Those peak and trough tests aren't all that reliable..although some clinics think they are the "cat's meow" so to speak.
The problem with the P and T tests is that they don't necessarily prove anything and really are useless for determining dose because it does not distinguish between the ACTIVE and INACTIVE isomers of methadone...so your test could come back as "adequate" but be 100%INACTIVE methadone.
The way a patient 'feels' is a much more effective tool in determining dosage.
If you look at articles about peak and trough tests they generally say the same thing..and I quote:
Peak and Trough tests "should be interpreted within the context of the patient's overall clinical presentation".
I guess you could say they are an 'adequate' diagnostic tool but aren't all that reliable so I wouldn't put my money on the P and T tests alone.
The person is the best one to tell if their dose is 'enough' or not.
Take care all...
Susie.
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted March 10th, 2008 08:34 PM IPHi Jessica and welcome: If you have read any of our posts here we don't really subscribe to detoxing while pregnant. Yes, there have been some who have decreased their doses while pregnant but I don't know what theyoutcome of their pregnancies have been.
And, yes, there is some literature that says that if you MUST detox then in the 2nd trimester is the time...but in actuality detoxing or decreasing is NOT the thing to do while pregnant.
I understand you had a hard time with your first, but I want to ask how did they treat your first child in the NICU?...ie..what did they have her on for weaning?
Morphine is the recommended drug for weaning...although some do use methadone which is not a good idea since methadone has such a long half life, what in actuality is happening is that the baby is having to be weaned alot longer because of that half life. Morphine is a short acting opiate so weaning is done over a shorter period. I'd like to know what drug they used.
Also, 6 weeks is a LONG time and I have to wonder if they didn't mismanage the weaning process...how educated were they???
Another thing is that noone can tell if the fetus is suffering withdrawls or not, 1mg is not alot for a person of average weight but to a developing fetus 1mg. is a tremendous amount in relation.
Usually when being weaned in NICU the dr's will decrease the dosage by .03mgs...ie..if the baby was on .09mgs. of morphine to wean then after his scores for NAS were stable and on the decline they would only decrease the dosage to .06mgs. and then wait until stable again... then to .03..etc.etc..so if they decrease that miniscle amt. for a newborn, then a fetus has to feel alot more than an adult does decreasing 1 whole mg.
I only say this because just because we can't see a fetus withdrawing doesn't mean that it doesn't. Decreasing ones' dose while pregnant is contraindicated within the profession.
There are other things you can do to help to minimize the NAS and finding out what they treat the newborn with is one strategy. Another is to get yourself onto split dosing....that has been shown to be beneficial for NAS.
And also remember that dosage of the mom has NO bearing on the severity of NAS of the newborn.
I just wanted to give you a few things to think about as you decide what to do with this pregnancy. It is aweful what you had to go thru with your first and I can understand why you'd be gunshy this time around but I would be doing you an injustice to say that decreasing your dose while pregnant is beneficial.
I invite you to read thru the posts here, including the archives...there is ALOT of info here and it would be helpful if you have the time for you to peruse through it. Oh, and just because one heading for a post is something not related to what you are interested in doesn't mean that there isn't anything in there that isn't going to be helpful..alot of times we get talking about one thing, which leads to another and another...so don't let the heading of the post deter you from at least skimming thru the post.
Again, welcome to our family and congratulations.
Please feel free to ask anything at all, even if it does not pertain to mmt.
Good luck,
Susie.
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted March 10th, 2008 08:37 PM IPanother thing..I just re read your post and your dr. wants you to come down 1mg. EVERY OTHER DAY?????????
That is WAY tooo much, even for a person who ISN"T pregnant to detox with. I would really really caution you about that amount if you ARE going to detox while pregnant..I assumed you were talking about every week...and even THAT is alot for a developing fetus as I stated in my previous post...but every other day is NOT something I would suggest at all!!!
Susie.
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted March 10th, 2008 09:56 PM IPOh Jessica...To give you something postive to think about...there have been quite a few mom's lately on this board who have given birth (on mmt) and had their babies born free from any NAS whatsoever..and have taken them home right away and they've been fine..and growing like weeds..lol..
Just something to think about.
Susie.
@Susie, Sharon did indeed advise me against detoxing while pregnant, as i was looking to go down that route as I really dont want to put another wee one through what Annaya went through, but I understand that I need to do what is best for myself and the baby.
I didn't get to see my drugworker yesterday as he wasn't there, but Im going today and like you advise Susie, Im armed with evidence, Ive been online all morning gathering info, I mean there has been endless studies done on pregnant women on methadone and the conclusion is, the terminal half life is decreased during the second and third trimester and pregnancy can lower methadone blood levels, therefor dosage may need to be increased in pregnant patients. I agree, I will need to be assertive and forthright and hit them with the facts, its a sad state of affairs when you have to educate the proffesionals.
I'll let you know how i get on.. thanks for the advice and support.. much appreciated.
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted March 11th, 2008 12:45 PM IPJessica; I hear you and feel your pain....I know that the 6 weeks was a long time...and 3 months....that is UNHEARD OF....I really have to question how they did things for that little baby.
The standard of practice is NOT to detox so that is why there aren't any posts about people who have come right off methadone before the birth.
Unfortunately that isn't the way to go I'm afraid.
I gotta go..my little guy has been sick with a fever of 103 for the past couple of daysand we think he has Roseola, so he needs me right now...but what I suggest is that you email Sharon and ask her advice on what to do.
And..whatever you decide..remember that YOU and your baby are the important ones here...I understand your bf may be afraid but methadone is very very very safe while pregnant and there are no complications from using it, besides the possibility of NAS...you don't have to worry about any diseases or brain damage or anything like that.
You have to remember that even if your bf wants you to get off methadone before the birth you have to be strong enough to say to him that that is NOT the way to go and just because someone else thinks you should does not mean that you should..what I am trying to say is HE doesn't have to go through the withdrawls of detoxing, you and your baby do so remember that....its easy for him to say "oh just get off the stuff before the birth...but it's not that easy or safe for you to do that.
Like I said...email Sharon, she is GREAT and will give you her advice. Her email address is at the top of the first page...ok?
Sorry I don't have anything more for you...I know what you WANT to hear but unfortunately I cannot tell you that is the way you should go...
I would definately NOT detox...let alone 1mg. every other day.
1mg every other day would be fine for someone who wasn't pregnant and was at lets say a dose of 150..but when you get down to 50's and 40's you really have to go slow slow slow..that that is while NOT being pregnant.
Sorry...gotta run...
Talk to you later..
Susie.
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted March 11th, 2008 12:47 PM IPMaggie: I'm glad you armed yourself with ammunition...lol....
Please please let us (me) know how it went ok?
Unfortunately we are the ones who DO have to educate the Dr's and I hate that it is that way..who knows...maybe you will find someone who is a 'expert'..but as it stands now...YOU are the expert...and Sharon is the best resource for this stuff...
Take care, and good luck today.
Susie.
Jessica1381 *ADMINISTRATOR* Posts: 1898 Registered: Mar 2008
Posted March 11th, 2008 02:00 PM IPSusie, I don't know what to do or how to handle this. It is all very scary for me. I am trying to get another appointment with the DR at my clinic. How is split dosing better for the fetus? I don't understand that at all. I read something on this site some where that a woman had a baby and did split dosing and her baby was born with NO withdrawal symptoms at all. She said that split dosing is the reason her baby was ok and born with NO withdrawal symptoms at all. That makes NO sense to me. I did e-mail Sharon, but I have yet to hear back from her. I e-mailed her yesterday. I really need to hear someone say something positive here. I am really struggling with this. I just don't want to go through what I did last time with Angelina. It was awful. I don't want to put my boy friend through that either. You gotta understand where I am coming from. He lost a baby to SIDS 5 years ago, so he is gonna be scared of anything with this one. Something like this would scare the hell out of him. He is okay because the DR told me that i can come off the methadone. His family doesn't know anything about my past and quite honestly I DONT want them to either. I don't want them to think differently of me. If I have this baby on methadone and it has to stay in the hospital like Angelina did... what if they look at me like I did this to my baby. I mean they are really nice people and they may not think that way of me but it is really scary. This whole situation is. I was on birth control when I got pregnant this time. I would never have gotten pregnant on purpose on methadone. Not after the experience I had with my daughter. That was heart wrenching for me. I hated that they had to give her morphine. I hated to see her little hands shake. I hated the whole experience. It was the worse thing I ever went through in my entire life...EVER! I DONT WANT TO DO THAT AGAIN! I am scared of losing this baby during my pregnancy if something goes wrong. That scares the heck out of me too. I don't want to hurt my baby either. The DR said that this could be done and it has been done with other women before me, successfully too. I am trying like hell to hold on to that. I want to be okay and I want my little one to be okay too. Cant anyone give me something POSSITIVE to hold on too??? PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Susie for talking with me. I hope your baby feels better soon.
Thank You,
JessicaJessica (Jensen) Silansky, CMA
Primary Pregnancy Support Specialist
Substance Abuse Counselor
Certified Methadone Advocate
Certified Hepatitis C Basic Educator
Member of NAADAC, AATOD & MOAR
Passed CADAC1 exam
Jessica@MethadoneSupport.org
1-860-798-5785
susie3827 Unregistered
Posts: Registered:
Posted March 11th, 2008 05:23 PM IPJess: I hear what you are saying...and you are in a tight spot...I can relate to your anxiety about what to do...really I can...
I KNOW that Sharon will answer you ...she is so busy these days but I will personally give her a shout and let her know that this is very important for you..ok?
Susie.
Jessica1381 *ADMINISTRATOR* Posts: 1898 Registered: Mar 2008
Posted March 11th, 2008 05:36 PM IPThank you Susie, I just cant stand being so darn stressed out. I want everything to be okay. I think what I may just do is start to go down and IF I feel any withdrawal then I will just stop it all together and have the baby on methadone and my bf will have to understand and get over it.... as much as I HATE THE THOUGHT OF GOING THROUGH ANOTHER GOD KNOWS HOW LONG IN THE HOSPITOL WATCHING MY BABY DETOX!!! If I do fine then I will come off of it. That is all I can do, TRY...From what I read it can be done safely in the last 6 months as long as you are working with a doctor and speaking up if there is a problem. Do you know anything about this split dosing thing? Or how it makes a baby have little to no withdrawals?
Thanks, JessicaJessica (Jensen) Silansky, CMA
Primary Pregnancy Support Specialist
Substance Abuse Counselor
Certified Methadone Advocate
Certified Hepatitis C Basic Educator
Member of NAADAC, AATOD & MOAR
Passed CADAC1 exam
Jessica@MethadoneSupport.org
1-860-798-5785
Maggie Member
Posts: 217 Registered: Mar 2008
Posted March 12th, 2008 04:49 AM IPYes, I think splitting your dose when pregnant is quite important. Like Susie, I didn't split my dose with my first pregnancy, because they dont allow it, but now I pick up 3 days supply at a time, so I can split it myself and hopefully doing so will keep my w/d's at bay.
Well, all my worrying about my drug worker not increasing my dose was pointless, it seems they've came quite far in 5 years, he was able to tell me, what I intended to tell him, so im totally relieved. But I proved to myself how I can create symptoms from my worrying, because since they agreed to increase my dose and had a good talk with me, I feel much better.. a lot of it is psychological with me. My methadone wont increase for a few days, which isn't great as im still very restless at night, which I hate, time goes soooo slow through the night, you feel like your the only one awake and everyone else is sound asleep, horrible feeling.
But over all, i feel much better
Side note: I found this about methadone withdrawel, its prolly one of the best Ive ever read and one I'll be following when i feel ready to come off methadone for good. http://www.dpeg.org/treatment/metha..._withdrawal.htm
