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frank1983
Member

Posts: 2
Registered: Nov 2009
 Posted November 30th, 2009 06:07 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Although the journey isn’t over yet, I feel that the information I have to offer is much to valuable to wait, and after all I can always update. So here is my story….

I got on pain meds for a toothache that should have been taken care of immediately but because of the area I live it took 3 months for my dentist appointment. Before my Dad gave me pills I was actually crushing up aleve and rubbing it on my tooth because it hurt so badly. It was actually my relatives who helped got me started on pills and when I stopped I went in withdrawal and found a Doctor. I was honest and the doctor actually tried tapering me over with the same medication but the only problem was that I had a surgery within a couple months that would require pain medication. After my surgery I was prescribed liquid oxycontin because my jaw was wired shut. Even though my doctor was willing to continue the taper all over again I decided to go into detox. Now at the time I was on xanax but did not abuse them and only took ¼ of what I was prescribed. Even though I was on them for awhile I had no w/d when I stopped. When I went into the detox they gave me phenobarbitol for the xanax even though there was no purpose to detox me from it. When I came out of detox I was fine for a couple days then had the weirdest withdrawal ever. At the time I thought it was from opiates and ended up using again but come to find out it was from the freakin phenobarbitol b/c I left ama and they had me on a higher dose of it and it only takes a week to get physically dependence from it. After tapering from that I was on suboxone for awhile which did not work well for me so I switched to methadone. I had tried methadone on the street and at the time it felt like there were no bad side effects but I guess it takes awhile for methadone to rear it’s ugly head. So after being fed bs by the clinic I ended up increasing my dose to 90mg but I knew something wasn’t right b/c I still felt tired all day but then anxious for my dose in the morning. I figured it was b/c of my high metabolism and concluded that I would never feel normal on methadone. The clinic would not lower my dose so I purposely missed 4 days and then of course they had to lower it. They lowered it to 60mg and I stayed on that until I moved to Nashville. After being in Nashville for 7 months my dose was at 40mg and I decided to taper but it wasn’t working b/c my dose would wear off. I tried to cold turkey but I failed b/c I was at the point I couldn’t breath and decided to go back on my methadone. So here is where I have found the solution to tapering off as comfortably as possible. And I say comfortably because I personally don’t mind suffering while I’m off it but I hate suffering while I’m still taking the garbage.

Methadone Taper Solution

After all other methods failed I FINALLY found one that worked but have never read anywhere. So I will share with you how to do it. Suppose you are on 40 mg of methadone and your dose wears off (even if it don’t I still recommend doing it this way) Take your 40 mg dose and put it in a 100mL beaker. Dilute your 40 mg dose with water so that it equals 100mL. Have someone else dispense 10-15 mL in whatever you drink throughout the day. (It is better to have someone else doing it so you can forget about taking methadone) Pace it so that the 100mL lasts 24 hours. Now the next day do the same thing but once you dilute it to 100mL take out 2-5 mL so you end up with 95-98mL. The next day you can proceed one of two ways depending on how fast you want to get off it. You can continue taking 2mL out until you get down to 30mL then start taking 1mL and then at 15mL take out .5. If you do get symptoms from tapering keep your dose steady for a few days. (7-10 days for your brain to heal on a slow taper) If you want to taper at all times then take a calculator and multiply 100 *95% (.95) then multiply that result by .95. Keep doing that and you will get a list of how to taper by 5% of your dose everyday. Okay now let’s address the problems that can come up.

1. Having to go to the clinic-

Obviously the more take homes you have the easier this is. I had 6 in Nashville but when I moved back to PA they pushed me down to 4 b/c of some stupid technicality. So this is what you do. When you take your dose in front of the nurse, do not swallow it but spit it out after you leave. (If you use that dose at a later time freeze it right away and boil it after you thaw it out) It takes awhile to get used to b/c you may feel rude to not say bye to the nurse but after awhile you get used to it and they get used to you. If you have to talk try to spit your dose into your shirt or sleave. Just pretend you are wiping your mouth and spit it out. It helps if you are wearing a black sweatshirt. If you are using this method you should have plenty of extra methadone at home so you shouldn’t worry about running out. Finally if you must swallow it, try not to swallow all of it but if you do don’t distress. I had to a few times and it didn’t impact my taper as much as I thought it would. The most I had to swallow was 40 mg when I was really only on 15mg.

2. Dealing with symptoms

I had found an endorphin supplement on the internet but it was way too much money so I researched all the ingredients in it and took them seperatly. First thing I recommend is a protein supplement. Try to get whey protein with as many amino acids as possible in it. The other thing that really helped was St. John’s Wort and 5-Htp but you have to be careful. My first withdrawal symptom used to be depression but after taking that stuff I could have cramps and restless legs and still be in a good mood. You would be surprised how easier it is to put up with symptoms if you are in a good mood. After about a month in a half I got sick and at first I thought it was the methadone b/c I was only on 8mg. But I was only experiencing anxiety and not to much else so I thought I caught a bug. I tried to research to find out when type of virus or bacteria can cause anxiety but it turned out I wasn’t ill at all. I had serotonin syndrome. 5-Htp and St. John’s wort work like antideppressants without all the side effects. They help build serotonin but once you have your serotonin built up you are supposed to stop taking them. So I did and within 2 days I was better, although it takes a couple weeks for it to get out of your system.

All of that was a few days ago. Today’s dose was approx 6.5 milligrams. Todays date is November 29, 2009. I started tapering from 40 mg on September 15, 2009. I am in a good mood, the fluctation of my body tempature is much better than when I was on 20mg, I have lots of energy, and many feelings I have not experienced for awhile have returned. I do experience withdrawal symptoms b/c my taper is on the faster side since I decided to stop going to the clinic since I have months worth of methadone here, probably over a years worth in a week due to my low dose. What is odd though is the withdrawal I am experiencing is more in line with PAWS which I attribute to taking my dose evenly throughout the day. I rarely experience more than 1 withdrawal symptom at a time. The most common ones are anxiety, restlessness, and insomnia. None of them are unbearable. If it wasn’t for the protein and supplements I have been taking I would’ve had to of gone down slower and I am glad when I thought I was sick I didn’t take more methadone b/c methadone increases serotonin syndrome. If I feel anything that makes me consider taking more methadone I keep my dose steady for a few days. I never had to keep my dose steady more than 4 days. Although it is tempting to rush off methadone since I’m only on a few miligrams I plan to continue diluting my dose even when I am under 1 mg. I have heard stories of withdrawal at jumping off as low as 2mg and I figure if I have to stay on .5 mg for a week then so what. The more comfortable I feel the greater my chance of succeeding. I am very impatient and it against my nature to wait for something however it is God’s will that I am following not my own. I also don’t subscribe to that vague “Higher Power” b/s and it is probably why I don’t go to group meetings b/c to me the truth is the truth and I don’t believe in watering it down b/c some people don’t have faith. Every success story I read involved giving credit to God even when there support system failed so I am here to say that I have no support system except for God and it is and has been enough to come this far. Many people have already made the point of thinking methadone was a solution b/c they never dealt with the issues that led them to the addiction in the first place. If addiction is a disease then everyone has it. Anyone who smokes cigarettes is an “addict”. Anyone who gambles all the time is an “addict”. Anyone who drinks coffee everyday is an “addict”. Everyone is a potential addict so calling addiction a disease is redundant. I wasn’t able to get into the mindset of recovering until I no longer thought of addiction as a disease but rather as a physical dependence that effects the brain in a way that is automatic and not necessarily brought on by any stimulus. Perhaps that is what some ppl may mean by addiction but when I hear addiction I feel as if a choice is implied and we always have a choice. Even if withdrawal would kill us we still have the choice to die rather than to satisfy it. Free Will can’t cure cancer but it can cure addiction. Is it a choice we have to constantly make for the rest of our lives? Perhaps but no more unique than choosing to lie or not after we learn to do so or choosing to be unfaithful after the first time we cheated, or choose to steal after we have learned to steal. The current trend into society is to turn sins into diseases. The media seems to spread the lie that “humans are not sinners”. Everytime you hear the term “innocent people” you have to laugh b/c who is innocent? Even as a child we can remember doing things that we knew were wrong so is there any adult more innocent than a child? The more we are in denial of the truth about human nature the more the cards are stacked against our recovery. If it’s human nature to sin than only God’s nature can save us from sin. Anyone was has recovered and been through withdrawal is more open to God than most people because they have experienced pain, suffering, and feelings of death. Why do these things bring us closer to God? Because Christ suffered and he saved the world by suffering. Why didn’t Christ bring himself down from the cross? The same reason you do not give up when you are in withdrawal because withdrawal is a means not an end. The means is suffering and the end is eternal life.

If even God had to suffer on a cross then who are we to think we shouldn’t have to suffer?

*boom* L O S T
   
lvlheaded
Power Poster

Posts: 176
Registered: Aug 2009
 Posted November 30th, 2009 02:34 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
sounds good other then the spitting up your dose at the clinic. that could lead to all kinds of hell. i would never encourage anyone to do that. if you got caught you are looking at atleast losing all your carries or worse discharge.
Glad you are doing so well tho. thanks for the idea and welcome to MA
   
frank1983
Member

Posts: 2
Registered: Nov 2009
 Posted December 1st, 2009 06:26 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
it's impossible to get caught, b/c if worse comes to worse you can swallow your dose if you are forced to speak, not only that but if you are actually taking much less than your dose then you should have enough extra left over when you decide to leave the clinic, which i did, i already went over all these points...if you take your methadone all in one shot it makes it waaaay more difficult to get off...i find it kind of funny that you risked your life at one point by taking drugs in the first place but you are afraid to spit out your dose? that is "addict thinking" the dose is really poison...garbage...what do you think happens to people who are forced to go to jail or can no longer afford to pay the clinic? no one has pity on them, and the clinic doesn't give a shit....the clinic is there to make money and treats its patients like criminals and the rules are set up so it is almost impossible to get off methadone...no one who hasn't been through withdrawal understands the issue including doctors, at least all the ones i have met..the goal of this forum is a detox/taper...it is not unethical or illegal to not take your dose, it is simply a rule for them to keep you on it....anyone who is a really bad addict cannot be controlled anyway b/c they will always try to get high no matter what restrictions are placed on them...it is not that hard to spit out your dose and if someone has enough carries but is too afraid of "getting caught" they are better of throwing up there dose after swallowing it than keeping it their system and screwing up their taper...ppl who jump off a 2mg still go into w/d b/c they are taking that 2mg all in one shot....ppl who have a months worth of carries still take their dose in one shot and it makes it alot harder to jump off....fact is that for me....if i need 10mg in one shot to get through the day then i can get away with taking 7mg throughout the day...here is some data from my taper doing it with this method and i experienced almost no withdrawal symptoms

31.6-26.6 20 days
26.6-21.6 7 days
21.6-16.6 10 days
16.6-11.6 10 days
11.6-6.6 15 days

using this method there is no need to lower and then stay at your dose for weeks, you can lower by small increments EVERY DAY as your body heals and adjusts at a STEADY RATE without experiencing the shocks of a "drop" today is day 63 of my taper and i am at 6.324 mg or 93% of 17mL of methadone with 40mg equalling 100mL...for some reason 2 days ago i had a hard time sleeping but i am feeling much better today and my sleep is back to normal...i had insomnia before i ever took a drug and i slept 8 hours last night while still decreasing my dose by roughly 3% EVERYDAY and this is coming from a person who completely failed tapering the traditional way due to withdrawal symptoms

*boom* L O S T
   
lvlheaded
Power Poster

Posts: 176
Registered: Aug 2009
 Posted December 1st, 2009 07:31 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Well i tapered off through my clinic and am over 6 weeks clean. whatever works for you is a good thing.

Can you tell us some info about your time on methadone? How long were you on it, what dose were you on when you were stable and how long have you been on your taper. thanks
lvl
   
dal33
*MODERATOR*
Detox/Taper Forum


Posts: 945
Registered: Apr 2009
 Posted December 1st, 2009 11:22 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
I'd be interested in the same things lvl addressed. btw, & I'm not being a smart-arse, but what's a "bad addict" as opposed to a "good?addict"? I used for over 30 yrs, & have been on MMT for 12 yrs, coming on Dec. 3rd. Iguess I kinda get the jist of what you are saying re; bad addict. But, an addict is an addict.....
That said, a Unique way to taper to say the least, & I have no love for the clinik system! I do know there's absplutely NO way anyone will get out the door with a dose in their mouth! I've known ppl that have done it at other cliniks, but even IF someone did where I go, it'd be the last time!
Looking fwd to some of the answers, thanx. take care

"Strange how people who suffer together have stronger commitments than peoplewho are most content"
b. dylan
   
williams32
Power Poster

Posts: 113
Registered: Aug 2009
 Posted December 2nd, 2009 12:14 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
No easy way to Detox, do it hard so you remember the pain.
   
taperingfrom140
Posting Pro

Posts: 794
Registered: Aug 2008
 Posted March 24th, 2010 10:44 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Be glad methadone is there. This is the post statistical approach to a detox, but I DON'T RECOMMEND THIS. VERY, VERY, VERY BAD IDEA. Sounds like it worked for ONE person out of 1,000 or more......

IMO...

TF

There is life after pain...
   
dal33
*MODERATOR*
Detox/Taper Forum


Posts: 945
Registered: Apr 2009
 Posted March 25th, 2010 04:09 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
As I re- read this post today, I am looking at it in a whole other light. No I am not putting you down, I said b4 I've no love for the clinik system, but this "method" is likely a success in only a very few people. The *relapse* rate is already high enough................Anyhow, I really do hope the best for you!
And lvlheaded! So good to see you again, I thought ya' fell off the face of the big blue marble here! I always have appreciated your support! And a HUGE congrats to you! Sounds like you are doing well, & I couldn't be happier for you! take care & be well

"Strange how people who suffer together have stronger commitments than peoplewho are most content"
b. dylan
   



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