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Peter Taylor
Master Mason
Posts: 1946
Registered: Aug 2005 |
 Posted July 26th, 2010 01:49 PM IP   
The problem he has, other than being completely blinkered and bigotted, is that he hasn't been able to understand that the RC Church all but disappeared from the mid 1500s here when the very beginnings of Freemasonry began. The Presbyterian Church had a much bigger influence than any other!
The Regis poem was created in the RC Church era, (some 200 years before the earliest Masonic minutes extant), and even that suggested the care of women etc.......
Oh well .... I tried!
Regards, Peter
PM Lodge Albert 448, PM Lodge Discovery 1789, Provincial Grand Secretary of Forfarshire, Hon. 54, 164, 299, 327, 486; PZ RA Chapter Albert 503, Installed Mark Master, AASR (30th), PMWS Rose Croix, ROoS, KT, KTP, OSM, RCC, RAM, CC, SRIS, Squaremen
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Prometheus
Member
Posts: 501
Registered: Feb 2008 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 01:56 PM IP
Quote:
mgc wrote:
jay,
thnx for the open door.. |
DRN U BR JAY!!! 
Brother Peter,
As always, I solute your magnificence!
Awesome Info as usual! Keep up the good Work!
P
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Jay
Master Mason
Posts: 304
Registered: Feb 2010 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 02:15 PM IP
Quote:
mgc wrote:
jay,
thnx for the open door..
what influence r.c. doctrines have on fmf is xactly the question im asking..
i think part of it has been answered..
no doubt there r many other areas that were also influenced by r.c. doctrines..
my goal is to find out why things r the way they r, and if possible, to ponder those reasons validity in current society..
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simple answer is "none"
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mgc
Member
Posts: 48
Registered: Jul 2010 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 02:15 PM IP
Quote:
the RC Church all but disappeared from the mid 1500s here when the very beginnings of Freemasonry began. |
irrelevant.. the role patterns were already well established by then.. damage done..
Quote:
The Presbyterian Church had a much bigger influence than any other! |
and did their view on women differ much compared to r.c. doctrines? were women all of a sudden mens equal in society?
it is not how men should care for women that we r discussing here.. the point is: howcome women didnt (and often still dont) have the same rights?
@jay
Quote:
simple answer is "none" |
simple reply is;
taurus feces
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Jay
Master Mason
Posts: 304
Registered: Feb 2010 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 02:22 PM IP
Quote:
mgc wrote:
@jay
simple reply is;
taurus feces
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okay then Mr. Not-A-Mason.
You tell us how We and Our craft were influenced by the RC church.
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mgc
Member
Posts: 48
Registered: Jul 2010 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 02:26 PM IP
perhaps u should read the thread, jay
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Jay
Master Mason
Posts: 304
Registered: Feb 2010 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 02:30 PM IP
Quote:
mgc wrote:
perhaps u should read the thread, jay
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You asked if we were influenced by the RC. All said "no" and you called BS.
So tell us how Freemasonry was influened by the RC Church.
You are making the accusations, so back them up.
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mgc
Member
Posts: 48
Registered: Jul 2010 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 02:34 PM IP
already have
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Peter Taylor
Master Mason
Posts: 1946
Registered: Aug 2005 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 02:49 PM IP
Quote:
mgc wrote:
already have
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No you haven't! All you have done is contradict and pose irrelevant questions!
I have given you plenty of factual and historically accurate information and all you have done is said, (effectively), "not correct"
If it isn't correct please supply historical FACTS; not simply contradictions!
Your accusation that the RC Church has had an influence are so general we could say that any preceding society had an influence on what we do today, and that is of course, relatively speaking, correct!
Be specific!
Regards, Peter
PM Lodge Albert 448, PM Lodge Discovery 1789, Provincial Grand Secretary of Forfarshire, Hon. 54, 164, 299, 327, 486; PZ RA Chapter Albert 503, Installed Mark Master, AASR (30th), PMWS Rose Croix, ROoS, KT, KTP, OSM, RCC, RAM, CC, SRIS, Squaremen
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Prometheus
Member
Posts: 501
Registered: Feb 2008 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 03:14 PM IP
Quote:
mgc wrote:
simple reply is;
taurus feces
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MGC, r rspct 4 u hs plngd evn frthr s a rslt f ur dmwttd rpls & chldsh mnnrs..
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S. T. Lehane
Master Mason
Posts: 1568
Registered: Oct 2006 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 03:42 PM IP
Kudos to the first person who can recognize this piece, translated into mgc's dialect:
mgc, u r dsqlfd.
-------
T b, r nt t b: tht s th qstn:
Whthr 'ts nblr n th mnd t sffr
Th slngs nd rrws f trgs frtn,
r t tk rms gnst s f trbls,
nd b ppsng nd thm? T d: t slp;
N mr; nd b slp t s w nd
Th hrt-ch nd th thsnd ntrl shcks
Tht flsh s hr t, 'ts cnsmmtn
Dvtl t b wsh'd. T d, t slp;
T slp: prchnc t drm: , thr's th rb;
Fr n tht slp f dth wht drms m cm
Whn w hv shffld ff ths mrtl cl,
Mst gv s ps: thr's th rspct
Tht mks clmt f s lng lf;
Fr wh wld br th whps nd scrns f tm,
Th pprssr's wrng, th prd mn's cntml,
Th pngs f dspsd lv, th lw's dl,
Th nslnc f ffc nd th sprns
Tht ptnt mrt f th nwrth tks,
Whn h hmslf mght hs qts mk
Wth br bdkn? wh wld frdls br,
T grnt nd swt ndr wr lf,
Bt tht th drd f smthng ftr dth,
Th ndscvr'd cntr frm whs brn
N trvllr rtrns, pzzls th wll
nd mks s rthr br ths lls w hv
Thn fl t thrs tht w knw nt f?
Ths cnscnc ds mk cwrds f s ll;
nd ths th ntv h f rsltn
s sckld 'r wth th pl cst f thght,
nd ntrprss f grt pth nd mmnt
Wth ths rgrd thr crrnts trn wr,
nd ls th nm f ctn.--Sft nw!
Th fr phl! Nmph, n th rsns
B ll m sns rmmbr'd.
Fraternally!
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Jay
Master Mason
Posts: 304
Registered: Feb 2010 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 03:45 PM IP
Quote:
S. T. Lehane wrote:
Kudos to the first person who can recognize this piece, translated into mgc's dialect:
mgc, u r disqlfd.
-------
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is it the 1613 Manifesto?
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S. T. Lehane
Master Mason
Posts: 1568
Registered: Oct 2006 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 03:47 PM IP
Quote:
Jay wrote:
is it the 1613 Manifesto?
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Nt qt
Fraternally!
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Prometheus
Member
Posts: 501
Registered: Feb 2008 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 03:57 PM IP
It's Shakespeare's To Be or Not to Be.
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Prometheus
Member
Posts: 501
Registered: Feb 2008 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 03:59 PM IP
sry! i mean: its sksprs 2 b r nt 2 b
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S. T. Lehane
Master Mason
Posts: 1568
Registered: Oct 2006 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 04:01 PM IP
Bng!
Kds t prmths!
Fraternally!
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Prometheus
Member
Posts: 501
Registered: Feb 2008 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 04:15 PM IP
Quote:
S. T. Lehane wrote:
Bng!
Kds t prmths!
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TA!
Which immediately raises the question: Was Shakespeare's writings oppressed enough by FM and the RC to further oppress the fairer sex to this day!? 
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mgc
Member
Posts: 48
Registered: Jul 2010 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 05:16 PM IP
Quote:
any preceding society had an influence on what we do today |
that is xactly what im saying..
the question is what influence the society in question has/had on the relation between women and mfm..
we have already found women were xcluded from a lot of jobs cause of the rolpatterns the male dominated society imposed.. im sure u have enough evidence to support that claim..
we have not yet established to mutual agreement what caused the society to become male dominated..
Quote:
Your accusation that the RC Church has had an influence are so general we could say that any preceding society had an influence on what we do today |
the influence the r.c. church's doctrines has in causing society to become male dominated is apparently invisible to u.. it may have something to do with how they portray women.. what proof would u require for that?
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Prometheus
Member
Posts: 501
Registered: Feb 2008 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 07:08 PM IP
Quote:
mgc wrote:
we have not yet established to mutual agreement what caused the society to become male dominated..
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if u consder the +10k yr feml domination prior 2 it, male dom may smply b a pndulm swing balncin out the humn equation.
whch blows all ur prmises 2 bits.
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Dave Mavity
Super Moderator
Posts: 2371
Registered: Feb 2005 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 09:20 PM IP
Quote:
mgc wrote:
jay,
thnx for the open door..
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Yeah...thanks, Jay. 
I never get tired of this argument: "This is what is wrong with Masonry. Granted, I know nothing about it, the relative philosophical differences between religions, or the last 2000+ years of the progression of societies in general, but I'm right, because that's my premise."
Great stuff. That argument is not only presented by garden- variety idiots, but by fundies, as well.
Have you ever thought about taking your case to the E511 forum, MGC? You'd find many mouth breathers who would agree with you there. And you could make a lot of new, cool friends.
Ooo. Better yet- start a Facebook group.
(Edited by Dave Mavity)
Dave Mavity
Academia Lodge #847 F&AM, Oakland, CA: Traditional Observance, baby.
Golden City Lodge #1 AF&AM, Golden, CO
Oakland, CA Valley A&ASR
Intra Nobis Regnum Iehova
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canuck
Mastermason
Posts: 293
Registered: Dec 2009 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 09:54 PM IP
Quote:
mgc wrote:
howcome it was male dominated?
who was persecuting them?
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This is a ridiculous argument!
Of course it was male dominated - and it was simply because of mother nature! Men were physically stronger and in that time, due to the technical disadvantages of that time - physical strength was incredibly important to do anything. Have you ever tried working as a black-smith? Or maybe as a stone mason? Try working in a mine, you'll also see how much strength is needed... Not to mention - how much strength is needed to work a sword or a bow and arrow!!! So... the society was not simply male dominated. It was dominated by STRONG males (or ones that inherited titles from their once strong ancestors).
But... there is one very important flaw in your claims, and I am surprised no one caught it yet... You blame the Catholic Church for that "dominance" or for persecution of women...
If you put some effort and read something a little bit beyond medieval history, you will see that before the famous "dark ages" women had even LESS rights and privileges! In Roman and Greek times, they had much less rights and abilities... and that was long before the Catholic church or Christianity for that matter... No need to mention societies before that in prehistoric period... the whole "matriarchal" society story does not look as nearly as "matriarchal" when you look into the details of the day-to-day life they had.
So... please - stick to the facts, not the interpretations, you might find it very useful.
www.victorialodge.ca
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Prometheus
Member
Posts: 501
Registered: Feb 2008 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 10:25 PM IP
Quote:
canuck wrote:
...So... please - stick to the facts, not the interpretations, you might find it very useful. |
WHAT! Have facts muddy up a good argument?!?! Sacralege!
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skiendhu
Super Moderator
Posts: 2627
Registered: Dec 2004 |
Posted July 26th, 2010 11:48 PM IP
Taurus feces? isn't it hip to say bullshit these days? And what's all this abreviated writing crap, what's the point of an education if you wont write in a sensible and proper manner. Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned but I appreciate intelligent and productive discussion, preferably written in english, but all I,m getting from you mgc is tedious, boring and thoroughly annoying bullshit. It's time to take your irrelevent and unintelligent arguments elsewhere, where they will be appreciated, wherever that may be.
Practical experience is the best teacher
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Dave Mavity
Super Moderator
Posts: 2371
Registered: Feb 2005 |
Posted July 27th, 2010 12:37 AM IP
Does anyone else get the feeling that they're throwing turds at the village idiot?
Dave Mavity
Academia Lodge #847 F&AM, Oakland, CA: Traditional Observance, baby.
Golden City Lodge #1 AF&AM, Golden, CO
Oakland, CA Valley A&ASR
Intra Nobis Regnum Iehova
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Peter Taylor
Master Mason
Posts: 1946
Registered: Aug 2005 |
Posted July 27th, 2010 05:03 AM IP
Quote:
Dave Mavity wrote:
Does anyone else get the feeling that they're throwing turds at the village idiot?
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I'm pretty sure that mgc knows exactly what he is doing Dave! 
Regards, Peter
PM Lodge Albert 448, PM Lodge Discovery 1789, Provincial Grand Secretary of Forfarshire, Hon. 54, 164, 299, 327, 486; PZ RA Chapter Albert 503, Installed Mark Master, AASR (30th), PMWS Rose Croix, ROoS, KT, KTP, OSM, RCC, RAM, CC, SRIS, Squaremen
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Maximus
Member
Posts: 28
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted July 27th, 2010 11:26 AM IP
Quote:
mgc wrote:
it was male dominated thnx to the r.c. doctrines who made women into the cause of all evil.. therefor, according to the church, it would be best if women did nothing but obey their husbands or parents (read father)..
this evil is still spouted today..
this doctrine results in a rol pattern fmf based part of its rules upon..
women didnt "just" not do that kind of work.. they were pushed into not doing them..
were done now..
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Good. But we finally come to the heart of it, mgc is anti-religion, anti-Christian in particular.
Evangelism is inversely proportional to educational attainment.
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norwichman
Master Mason
Posts: 195
Registered: Jul 2005 |
Posted July 27th, 2010 01:03 PM IP
Adversus solem ne loquitor
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Dave Mavity
Super Moderator
Posts: 2371
Registered: Feb 2005 |
Posted July 27th, 2010 01:37 PM IP
Quote:
norwichman wrote:
Adversus solem ne loquitor
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There is that.
Dave Mavity
Academia Lodge #847 F&AM, Oakland, CA: Traditional Observance, baby.
Golden City Lodge #1 AF&AM, Golden, CO
Oakland, CA Valley A&ASR
Intra Nobis Regnum Iehova
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norwichman
Master Mason
Posts: 195
Registered: Jul 2005 |
Posted July 27th, 2010 01:53 PM IP
I suppose I could of written;
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
But I hardly know the man!
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Prometheus
Member
Posts: 501
Registered: Feb 2008 |
Posted July 27th, 2010 02:39 PM IP
Quote:
norwichman wrote:
I suppose I could of written;
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
But I hardly know the man! |
Then it's a very good thing that you didn't write that!
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Freemason Discussion Group :: Freemasonry :: Masonic World View :: Exclusion of Women in Freemasonry
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