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 Posted December 26th, 2005 08:57 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Freemasonry........is not a religion....

But could it be considered as another path like
Buddhism, Kabbalah etc., etc..........

Rick






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Everyything
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 Posted December 26th, 2005 09:03 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
I can say, it has become another path for myself.
[Edited by Everyything]
  
Dave Mavity
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 Posted December 26th, 2005 09:26 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
Admin wrote:
Freemasonry........is not a religion....


No, it is not.

Quote:
But could it be considered as another path like
Buddhism, Kabbalah etc., etc..........


Ahhh...paths that TRANSCEND religion. Freemasonry IS that.
And, my path.

S&F,




Dave Mavity
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Golden City Lodge #1 AF&AM, Golden, CO
Oakland, CA Valley A&ASR

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skiendhu
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 Posted December 26th, 2005 10:55 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
[quote]Admin wrote:
Freemasonry........is not a religion....

Very emphatically put.

But could it be considered as another path like
Buddhism, Kabbalah etc., etc..........

I'm with Br. Dave on that one.

S&F

skiendhu







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QUEST
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 Posted October 10th, 2008 03:34 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
I can see how it could be to some. I believe that it is a path for me, and I no longer try and give it a name. I just follow the Light.
  
A.T.Smith
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 Posted October 11th, 2008 12:19 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
QUEST wrote:
I no longer try and give it a name. I just follow the Light.


Hear, Hear!!!

Under the Shadow of Thy Wings
   
tawtyheed
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 Posted October 30th, 2008 02:38 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
i suppose for some people freemasonry is a religion, are not all religions based on some type of moral threads.
  
Peter Taylor
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 Posted October 31st, 2008 04:36 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
I don’t believe Freemasonry to be a Religion. However, what it really means by religion. Perhaps the lack of definition is why there does seem to be, in my mind anyway, a divergence of opinions. Not that I think that we might reach a consensus on this subject, but perhaps and agreement to disagree.

I use the New Shorter Oxford Dictionary as a very good basis of definitions. I have a copy in 2 volumes priced at £80 some time ago, so I do trust its definition of Religion.

Religion is defined thus:

1. A state of life bound by religious vows; the condition of belonging to a religious order; esp. in the Roman Catholic Church. As Freemasonry accepts membership from all accepted religions it follows that it can’t be defined as a religion in this sense as they cannot belong to more than one religious order. That would mean that members would have to denounce their own religion, which we can never ask them to do.
2. A particular monastic or religious order or rule. Now rare. Masons are not monks or belong to any religious order in this sense.
3. Belief in or sensing of some superhuman controlling power or powers, entitled to obedience, reverence and worship or in a system defining a code of living, esp. as a means to achieve spiritual or material improvement; acceptance of such a belief (esp, as represented by an organized Church) as a standard of spiritual and practical life; the expression of this in worship etc. Also, now rare, action or conduct indicating such belief; in religious rites. This has been my reason for believing that Freemasonry is not a religion. Worship is not part of any Masonic ceremony that I have witnessed.
4. A particular system of such belief. As above.
5. Devotion, fidelity; conscientiousness; pious attachment. Certainly we do believe in these qualities and from that sense Masonry could be classed as ‘religion’, but with a small ‘r’!
6. The sanction or obligation of an oath etc. As 5

Religious is defined thus:

1 Devoted to religion; exhibiting the spiritual or practical effects of religion, following the requirements of a religion; pious, godly, devout.
2 Bound by vows of religion; belonging to or connected with an order bound by such vows; monastic
3 Of the same nature of, pertaining to, or concerned with religion.
4 Scrupulous, exact, strict, conscientious.
   
HKMark23
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 Posted January 6th, 2009 01:55 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Freemasons and Freemasonry impress me. Thats why I aspired to become a brother.

Morals and values taught to us by the parents and grandparents of my generation seem, when they become inconvenient, to be easily cast aside whenever todays popular cultures and trends run afoul of them. This, I think, is sad if not outright dangerous. In Freemasonry, on the other hand, I believe we learn to live in the present and for the future without forsaking the lessons and morals brought to us from the past. I value this as a strength in Masonry and take from Masonry the following points;

1. Freemasonry is not my family but it endorses my family and family values.
2. Freemasonry is not my government but it endorses my government.
3. Freemasonry is not my religion but it endorses my religion.
4. Freemasonry is not my occupation but it endorses industry.

I take the definition of Freemasonry literally as "a peculiar system of morality illustrated by symbols and veiled in allegory", not as a religion. It stands alone and is strong enough to endorse and support time honored values without contaminating them to its own end. I believe the Craft is truly unique and beautiful. It is a puzzle which teaches as it reveals its secrets, but a religion, no. I can't, of course, speak for Masonry. This is merely my 2 cents.

  
skiendhu
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 Posted January 6th, 2009 11:11 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
HKMark23 wrote:
I can't, of course, speak for Masonry.





You just did my brother, and very well too.

Practical experience is the best teacher
   
47th_problem_euclid
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 Posted January 9th, 2009 12:20 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
W. L. Wilmshurst, in Masonic Initiation, writes that while he does not consider Freemasonry to be a religion, he understands why those brothers who believe it to be feel the way that they do, and he does not condemn them for it. I have to admit that the notion makes me a bit uncomfortable. This was a big talking point for the Conference of Southern Baptists when they voted on whether or not to forbid Baptists from becoming Freemasons, and it remains an objection to Freemasonry among its critics.

I regard Freemasonry to be a practice, like meditation, that people of different religions can benefit from. I personally believe that Freemasonry requires that a brother be religious, not out of some arbitrary restriction, but because the practice would be silly or insincere or counter-productive to a person who had no religion of his own. I think that's why I regard the attitude that Freemasonry is a religion to be so dangerous. I was never designed to take the place of the brother's chosen faith, but only to accentuate and focus that faith, and to show that there are points of commonality between all monotheistic faiths in "that Religion in which all Men agree", as Anderson would put it. While a brother could make "that Religion in which all Men agree" his sole religion, it is not appropriate to call the result Freemasonry.
  
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 Posted January 10th, 2009 11:02 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
It's interesting how this is an issue only in North America...
I've never heard European masons discussing if masonry is religion or not (although, due to the North American discussion, they too have problems explaining that this is not a religion!).
There is a very strange attempt in US to turn the lodge into a church. That is simply unmasonic! Preaching texts from the bible (out of what is given in the ritual itself), opening and closing the lodge with a prayer in the name of Jesus - it's simply wrong. Both from a religious and from a masonic point of view.
Lodges that do that (and many do), simply exclude people from other religions from joining. How do you expect a muslim or a jew to sit in a lodge and listen how the only salvation comes through Jesus...?!?!?
That strange need to preach at all times and everywhere and to put your own faith as the only right one, is anything but masonry.
So... I think that very soon they'll come to a point where they'll have to decide - are they freemasons, or they are a church? And if they are freemasons, then they'll have to comply with the centuries old rules and directions given to us. If they don't - what they'll have will be anything but masonry (as it is now).
  
Prometheus
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 Posted January 10th, 2009 11:30 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
canuck wrote:...
Lodges that do that (and many do), simply exclude people from other religions from joining. How do you expect a muslim or a jew to sit in a lodge and listen how the only salvation comes through Jesus...?!?!? ...

That's the exact point. These blatant actions are designed to have their faith dominate the lodge to the exclusion of any others. They are not Brotherly actions, and the intention is to dominate.
   
skiendhu
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 Posted January 10th, 2009 12:05 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
"By abstaining from any topic of religious or political discussion". From the charge in the 1st D.
To preach religion in lodge is totally against the constitution and regulations.
This is something that the GL of that jurisdiction should be handling.

Practical experience is the best teacher
   
S. T. Lehane
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 Posted January 10th, 2009 12:32 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Fundamentalist Christians believe that they have an imperative to "testify" or "witness" to Jesus at every available opportunity.

Of course, Lodge doesn't count as an "available opportunity."

But that's one of the main issues fundis have with us.

Fraternally!
   
A.T.Smith
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 Posted January 10th, 2009 01:51 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
.....not to mention the fact that we openly worship Satan.

Under the Shadow of Thy Wings
   
Dave Mavity
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 Posted January 10th, 2009 04:55 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
canuck wrote:

There is a very strange attempt in US to turn the lodge into a church.


Eh? Where?

Dave Mavity
Academia Lodge #847 F&AM, Oakland, CA: Traditional Observance, baby.
Golden City Lodge #1 AF&AM, Golden, CO
Oakland, CA Valley A&ASR

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canuck
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 Posted January 11th, 2009 01:42 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Not in your neck of the woods... the Pacific breeze is cooling your heads enough, not to do something that silly...
But... I've seen that in conversations with many masons from the Bible belt that they have a very different idea of what masonry and lodge looks like...
  
Prometheus
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 Posted January 11th, 2009 08:59 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
There was one Lodge I visited in the Bible Belt that came together after the close.

The entire lodge stepped down and formed a chain of union around the altar. They then proceeded to all say the "Our Father" and ended with the usual tag line "we say this ...in the name of..."

It was obvious that was not part of the official lodge proceedings because it was done "after" the lodge meeting but equally obvious that it was really part of the "unofficial" proceedings of the lodge and to expect it should someone attend.

   



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