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 Posted March 7th, 2005 10:07 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Has your chosen faith improved your Masonic
experience?

If so, in what way?

Has your chosen faith fully embraced
Freemasonry, or are there issues?

Has your chosen faith shown tolerance
towards other religions?

Has Freemasonry improved your
religious experience?

If so, in what way?

Loaded questions


Rick




[Edited by Admin]



Kenilworth #29 Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
   
Dave Mavity
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 Posted March 7th, 2005 11:17 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
Admin wrote:
Has your chosen faith improved your Masonic
experience?

Rick
[Edited by Admin]


Other way around, strangely enough. Pretty much puts to bed the whole "Masonry/Christianity incompatability" argument.

S&F,

Dave Mavity
Academia Lodge #847 F&AM, Oakland, CA: Traditional Observance, baby.
Golden City Lodge #1 AF&AM, Golden, CO
Oakland, CA Valley A&ASR

Intra Nobis Regnum Iehova
   
Leomarth
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 Posted March 12th, 2005 10:00 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
Admin wrote:
Has your chosen faith improved your Masonic
experience?

If so, in what way?


I think so. Paganism deals a lot in symbology and the esoteric. I think that helps for me.


Quote:

Has your chosen faith fully embraced
Freemasonry, or are there issues?


Because of the overt Christian tones in Freemasonry sometimes I feel a bit pressured, or perhaps compromised, but other than that, it's fine.

Quote:
Has your chosen faith shown tolerance
towards other religions?


That depends on the worshipper. I have tolerance for other religions as a personal trait. Some in my belief don't. But, I think that's the same in any religion.

Quote:
Has Freemasonry improved your
religious experience?

If so, in what way?


Not yet... but I'm only a EA. It has already improved me as a person, through the lessons taught in the initiation. I expect as I raise through the degrees that I will find more things that will enlighten me.

Yours. Leomarth
  
Dave Mavity
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 Posted March 12th, 2005 11:52 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:

Because of the overt Christian tones in Freemasonry


hmmm...strongly disagree with that, Brother. Give me an example of some of that overtness- could make for good discussion.


S&F,

Dave Mavity
Academia Lodge #847 F&AM, Oakland, CA: Traditional Observance, baby.
Golden City Lodge #1 AF&AM, Golden, CO
Oakland, CA Valley A&ASR

Intra Nobis Regnum Iehova
   
skiendhu
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 Posted March 16th, 2005 04:18 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote
I think so, paganism deals a lot in symbology and the esoteric

Leomarth wrote

The word paganism is widely misused to cover all sorts of religions, which it doesn't.
The pagans were and probably still are here and there, people who lived there lives according to the seasons, and looked to the heavenly bodies for guidance in this respect.
They revered the sun as the bringer of life and the provider of the wherewithall to sustain life.

They were primitive perhaps, but they weren't without inteligence.
They were fully aware that no sun meant no life.

S&F

skiendhu

Practical experience is the best teacher
   
dbweinberg
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 Posted March 20th, 2005 10:51 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
Quote:
Because of the overt Christian tones in Freemasonry

Dave Mavity wrote:

hmmm...strongly disagree with that, Brother. Give me an example of some of that overtness- could make for good discussion.


S&F,


From my perspective, the base of masonry has its roots in Judaic traditions, "interpreted" through the lense of a not-quite understanding Christian eye. It certainly makes SR interpretations interesting.
  
Admin
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 Posted August 29th, 2005 07:16 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
Because of the overt Christian tones in Freemasonry sometimes I feel a bit pressured, or perhaps compromised, but other than that, it's fine.



Do others feel this way ?

Is Freemasonry pulling us towards
Christianity, if we want to or not ?

Rick



Kenilworth #29 Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
   
russellholland
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 Posted August 30th, 2005 12:48 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
I would see the Christian clothing of Masonry as very recent.

The christian replaced the jewish that replaced the egyptian.

Time for a change of clothes again

Cheers

Russell


   
theron dunn
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 Posted August 30th, 2005 12:54 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
No, I do not see masonry drawing me toward christianity at all... a christian interprets masonry through the christian lens, the jew through a jewish lens, the muslim through a muslim lens and so on. The symbols relate to you on the level of understanding you bring to the craft.
  
Peter Taylor
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 Posted August 30th, 2005 03:42 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
No doubt that Freemasonry was created by Christians, so perhaps some of their beliefs ‘shine’ through in the ritual! However, I would have to say that Masonry is the only ‘multi religio / politico / cultural’ society in existence, and that any Christian overtones are by accident rather than by design!

I would add that, personally, I am closer to my Christianity due to Freemasonry as opposed to the other way round!

[Edited by Peter Taylor]
   
Helge
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 Posted December 23rd, 2005 06:20 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
For me it works both ways. Call it synergy effect if you like.
  
ptbojim1
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 Posted December 23rd, 2005 07:55 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Perhaps the Christian overtones are nothing more than a rewording of ancient wisdom and myth, cloaked in a 'new religion' garment presented by the roman church. Scratch the surface and the allegory and metaphor reach back into the dawn of humanity - or at least as far back as archeology and written records have provided us.
  
Bindura
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 Posted December 23rd, 2005 11:04 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
Because of the overt Christian tones in Freemasonry

I have not perceived overt Christian overtones in Lodges in this area, had I, or any other 'evangelical' or non-secular overtones I would not have joined.

Quote:
No doubt that Freemasonry was created by Christians..

Was it? I did not think so but...I'm frequently wrong... I would find that statement hard to believe; in my experience any organisation created by a 'religion' may welcome those of other beliefs but usually with a viev to converting them to their own beliefs...... Bro. Mavity?? Anyone else?

And in answer to at least one of your original questions Bro. Rick...Masonry has helped me become more spiritual and is encouraging further growth.

Cheers.
  
Peter Taylor
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 Posted December 23rd, 2005 11:25 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
James,

If you subscribe to the theory that Freemasonry originated from medieval stonemasonry in Scotland, which seem sthe most likely, then it would have been nost certainly Christian masons who were performing the 2 rituals of apprentice and fellow, writing the cathechism etc. The oppressive control that the protestant, (presbyterian) church imposed at that time would indicate to me that whatever the masons were doing did not 'offend' the church. Therefore, it would seem very reasonable to believe that it was Christian in its approach.
   
theron dunn
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 Posted December 23rd, 2005 12:19 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
"did not offend the church"...

my brother, I would counter with the thought that our secrecy is entirely DUE to the oppressive intrusion of the church, and that freemasonry's freedoms derive entirely from our secrecy.

However, since the church intruded into every aspect of men's lives, it is not surprising to an extent that it would be included in Masonry, if for not other reason than unconscious influences. Its not overt, to be sure, but as I mentioned above, you can see whatever religion you want in masonry today, based on the lens through which you view masonry.
  
Bindura
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 Posted December 23rd, 2005 12:32 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
I freely confess my ignorance in these matters... I'm learning so this is a genuine question, on which I would appreciate opinions...

Whether Freemasonry originated from operative masons, the Knight's Teplar, a mixture of both or somewhere else completely... does the Brotherhood not pre-date Christ?

Cheers.
  
ptbojim1
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 Posted December 23rd, 2005 02:26 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
I tend to favour this theory myself:
"Freemasonry and Church descended from Gnostics & Neo-Platonists

It may thus be shown that both modern Freemasonry and Church ritualism descended in direct line from initiated Gnostics, Neo-Platonists and renegade Hierophants of the Pagan Mysteries, the secrets of which they have lost, but which have been nevertheless preserved by those who could not compromise. If both Church and Masons are willing to forget the history of their true origin, the theosophists are not. They repeat: Masonry and the three great Christian religions are all inherited goods. The “ceremonies and passwords” of the former, and the prayers, dogmas, and rites of the latter, are travestied copies of pure Paganism (copied and borrowed as diligently by the Jews), and of Neo-Platonic Theosophy. [C.W.XI, 75

http://www.theosophical.ca/TheRightAngle.htm"
  
Dave Mavity
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 Posted December 23rd, 2005 04:48 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post


I believe the theory posted by Jim to be essentially correct.

S&F,

Dave Mavity
Academia Lodge #847 F&AM, Oakland, CA: Traditional Observance, baby.
Golden City Lodge #1 AF&AM, Golden, CO
Oakland, CA Valley A&ASR

Intra Nobis Regnum Iehova
   
ffocax
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 Posted October 16th, 2007 11:02 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
For me is the other way around, freemasonry has improved my religious views.

Now I try to see what is truly the word of God instead of man made dogmas in my faith - christianity.

A fraternal embrace to all.

Br. Ricardo Albuquerque
  
S. T. Lehane
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 Posted October 17th, 2007 07:34 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
First off, good to see you back Bro!

Quote:
Admin wrote:
Has your chosen faith improved your Masonic
experience?

If so, in what way?


I'd agree with Bro. Mavity -- that it's the other way around.

Freemasonry encourages you to look for the deeper meanings in your own faith. I find myself reading and studying parts of the OT that I had skipped or just skimmed over before, and contemplating their meaning in a new light.

Quote:
Admin wrote:

Has your chosen faith fully embraced
Freemasonry, or are there issues?

Has your chosen faith shown tolerance
towards other religions?


I think that comes down to the individual. Even atheists can be remarkably dogmatic and rigid in their beliefs, (and out to convert people).

Many Christians believe that they are particularly enjoined to go out and "witness" or try to "spread the word," which of course, is forbidden in Lodge.

Is that the basis of the historical friction between Christianity and Masonry -- that Masons are called on to suppress any urge to try to convert their brethren (at least in Lodge)?

As for Masonry having Christian undertones, I would respectfully submit that what you're perceiving are actually Jewish undertones. I really haven't noticed anything out of the NT grafted into Masonry (at least not at the Craft Lodge or Blue Lodge level), but of course, a lot of little bits have clearly been lifted straight out of the OT.

Of course the VSL is just a symbol for whatever sacred writings you subscribe to, but the fundamental story relates directly to the OT.



Fraternally!
   
Negredo
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 Posted October 24th, 2007 02:29 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
From my perspective, the base of masonry has its roots in Judaic traditions, "interpreted" through the lense of a not-quite understanding Christian eye. It certainly makes SR interpretations interesting.


Then you should see the H.R.A. degree. Oh man... I love the degree, but picture Jewish mysticism as beamed through the prism of a English Christian mind.
  
Dave Mavity
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 Posted October 24th, 2007 12:57 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
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Negredo wrote:


Then you should see the H.R.A. degree. Oh man... I love the degree, but picture Jewish mysticism as beamed through the prism of a English Christian mind.


Absolutely.

Dave Mavity
Academia Lodge #847 F&AM, Oakland, CA: Traditional Observance, baby.
Golden City Lodge #1 AF&AM, Golden, CO
Oakland, CA Valley A&ASR

Intra Nobis Regnum Iehova
   
47th_problem_euclid
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 Posted December 11th, 2008 04:05 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
I am Jewish, but was never raised with any religion at home. As a teenager, I dabbled with the Society of Friends (Quakerism), neo-Paganism, and Unitarian Universalism. For about a year before I first knocked on the West Gate, I was attending Unitarian Universalist services, so in my petition, I listed the First Parish as my place of worship. The lodge secretary, interviewing me, asked me about my church attendance, and for a moment, I heard a voice in my head say, "Unitarian? Schmuck, you're Jewish!". A few weeks later, I visited a local synagogue for Kabbalat Shabbat services. In the next two months, I visited six synagogues, found one I liked, and became a member before my EA degree. By FC I had been given an aliyah before the bimah and given a Jewish name, and today I go to synagogue every Friday night and Saturday morning, with few exceptions. I feel like Freemasonry steered me back to the religion of my ancestors, and in return my religion brings me to lodge.
  
WalkThePath
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 Posted November 27th, 2009 08:08 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
As per the topic of "overt Christian tones" in Masonry, I can agree with that. I mean, the Holy Bible for example, is prominently displayed and used in most Lodges in America.

Although I am not a Christian myself, and I can respect the idea that it is the overall goodness promoted in the Bible and not exactly the story of Christ as G-d in Masonry that is subjected.

I do not feel Masonry is or should pull anyone in any sort of religious direction, as it is the unity of intelligent man striving for divine perfection that attracted me to it so much. Turning lead into Gold, as it were.
  



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