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osirian_zealot
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 Posted May 12th, 2005 05:30 AM IP   
just throwing this one out there, has anyone else heard of a colleration between the rituals/ceremonies of masonry and the king making ceremonies of old? and a belief that the kt found history pertaining to it?
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skiendhu
Super Moderator
Posts: 2627
Registered: Dec 2004 |
Posted May 12th, 2005 04:03 PM IP
I'm almost positive that there are connections between the two, but I am not knowledgeable enough to provide info. about them.
However, i can almost guarantee that Brs. dave mavity and russell holland can provide an answer.
S&F
skiendhu
Practical experience is the best teacher
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russellholland
Master Mason
Posts: 996
Registered: Feb 2005 |
Posted May 12th, 2005 06:30 PM IP
My understanding is that the annointing of kings comes from the messianic tradition.
And Messiah comes from messeh - supposedly egyptian for crocodile.
So the early annointing of the egyptian kings (before they had pharaohs?) was with crocodile fat.
And is the reptilian crocodile related to the serpent of genesis? Remember the serpent in the garden seems to have told the truth unlike the god.
And is there any correlation to the human foetus starting in reptilian form?
Cheers
Russell
Russell Holland
Caboolture 266
UGLQ
Australia
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Dave Mavity
Super Moderator
Posts: 2371
Registered: Feb 2005 |
Posted May 12th, 2005 10:48 PM IP
I'll just throw out a couple of random things:
(oh...forgot...there ARE no random things  )
I think the kingmaking ceremony has been w/ us a long time- perhaps in Masonry as it's most modern form, probably before Egypt for it's earliest. There's a pretty interesting study of New Grange as a structure for this Ritual, in several places, the easiest to understand being Knight & Lomas' "Uriel's Machine." Not the most credible of sources, but occasionally they hit something that rings true.
An interesting quote on snakes, by Bro. Manly P. Hall, who is quickly becoming one of my favorites:
"The serpent is true to the principle of Wisdom, for it tempts man to the knowledge of himself. Therefore, the knowledge of self resulted from man's disobedience to the Demiurgus, Jehovah...The tree that grows in the midst of the garden is the spinal fire; the knowledge of the use of that spinal fire is the gift of the great serpent. Notwithstanding statements to the contrary the serpent is the symbol and prototype of the Universal Saviour, who redeems the worlds by giving creation the knowledge of itself and the realization of good and evil."
Think of it as rebellious children NEEDING that rebellion for growth. The spinal fire thing is fairly obvious.
Note also Christ's words, "Be ye wise as serpents."
I believe Hall based his statement on the gematrical equivalency between the Hebrew words NChSh(Nachash, the Serpent) and MShICh(Messiach, the Messiah), which both add to 358.
Also the number of IBA ShILH(Iba Shiloh, Peace shall come.)
The only insight I've got on crocodiles is that one is on the "Fool" card in the Thoth Tarot deck, replacing the more standard "little dog" of the Waite or PFC deck, which commonly represents intellect and personality annoying and getting in the way of The One.
S&F,
Dave Mavity
Academia Lodge #847 F&AM, Oakland, CA: Traditional Observance, baby.
Golden City Lodge #1 AF&AM, Golden, CO
Oakland, CA Valley A&ASR
Intra Nobis Regnum Iehova
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osirian_zealot
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Posted May 13th, 2005 12:38 AM IP
whoa, thats quite a reply from everyone, i may have to look in the subject more deeply as the other bros have
cheers pc
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russellholland
Master Mason
Posts: 996
Registered: Feb 2005 |
Posted May 13th, 2005 07:28 PM IP
I should have said that traditionally An/Anu/On "lowered kingship to earth" back in pre-Sumerian times.
This is preserved in HRA where the first principal (corresponding to On) has a crown on a rod.
Cheers
Russell
Russell Holland
Caboolture 266
UGLQ
Australia
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skiendhu
Super Moderator
Posts: 2627
Registered: Dec 2004 |
Posted May 13th, 2005 08:57 PM IP
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the new pharoah/king to be was put through a ritual by the preists during which, between the administration of a drug and auto suggestion, he journeyed to the city of the Gods, and when he returned he had taken on the role of Osiris.
This ritual aparently or supposedly made him a God King.
S&F
skiendhu
Practical experience is the best teacher
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Dave Mavity
Super Moderator
Posts: 2371
Registered: Feb 2005 |
Posted May 14th, 2005 01:18 AM IP
Quote:
skiendhu wrote:
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the new pharoah/king to be was put through a ritual by the preists during which, between the administration of a drug and auto suggestion, he journeyed to the city of the Gods, and when he returned he had taken on the role of Osiris.
This ritual aparently or supposedly made him a God King.
S&F
skiendhu
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Rings a bell, Bro..
I believe the Ritual lasted 3 days, and involved on the last day,(evening) an awakening to the light of Venus pouring into the Ritual chamber. Wouldn't be surprised if the Venus thing is where our "Blazing Star" came from.
Psychoactive drugs were supposedly a large part of this experience, and there are Initiatic groups who still use it, although most consider it a dangerous "shortcut."
S&F,
Dave Mavity
Academia Lodge #847 F&AM, Oakland, CA: Traditional Observance, baby.
Golden City Lodge #1 AF&AM, Golden, CO
Oakland, CA Valley A&ASR
Intra Nobis Regnum Iehova
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russellholland
Master Mason
Posts: 996
Registered: Feb 2005 |
Posted May 14th, 2005 04:21 AM IP
Dave
The blazing star in the floor of the lodge is likely to be a different star from that above the Master. Try Sirius from where the Widow Isis is said to have come.
Cheers
Russell
Russell Holland
Caboolture 266
UGLQ
Australia
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skiendhu
Super Moderator
Posts: 2627
Registered: Dec 2004 |
Posted May 14th, 2005 12:43 PM IP
Quote:
russellholland wrote:
Dave
The blazing star in the floor of the lodge is likely to be a different star from that above the Master. Try Sirius from where the Widow Isis is said to have come.
Cheers
Russell
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Agreed Br. Russell, it is also conjectured by some that the star above the WM , being Venus, at the times when it rose before the sun, sent light through the doemer and into the middle chamber before dawn.
It is also worth noting that one of our concordant bodies, the Order of the Eastern Star does refer to the planet Venus and many of their chapters are called Venus Chapter.
In all probability that was the star that Christ was born under.
S&F
skiendhu
Practical experience is the best teacher
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russellholland
Master Mason
Posts: 996
Registered: Feb 2005 |
Posted May 14th, 2005 08:14 PM IP
Dave
Try reading Civilisation One by Christopher Knight.
There 2 pillars plus a pendulum and the planet venus allow derivation of all metric and imperial measures for lengths, volumes, weights and liquids.
If the lewis is seen as a pendulum then all the equipment is present in the lodge.
Is this part of operative Masonic science?
(as compared with speculative masonic science)
Cheers
Russell
Russell Holland
Caboolture 266
UGLQ
Australia
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skiendhu
Super Moderator
Posts: 2627
Registered: Dec 2004 |
Posted June 11th, 2005 08:31 PM IP
Quote:
skiendhu wrote:
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the new pharoah/king to be was put through a ritual by the preists during which, between the administration of a drug and auto suggestion, he journeyed to the city of the Gods, and when he returned he had taken on the role of Osiris.
This ritual aparently or supposedly made him a God King.
I have read in "Turning the Hiram Key" that it was possible that when the king to be was raised from his temporary death, he was raised on the FPOF.
so here is another possible connection between the craft and the king making ceremonies.
S&F
skiendhu
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Practical experience is the best teacher
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Freemason Discussion Group :: Freemasonry :: History Of Freemasonry :: egyptian kingmaking ceromonies |
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